Sign in to follow this  
Richard Sennett

Newbie flight plan question

Recommended Posts

Hi Guys wondering why we fill in flight plan in aircraft if RC4 has me going in different directions - it does not follow the plan in the gps what am I missing here and if so one wouldnt even need to put plan in gps - I have not tried fmc bird yet with this program as still learning it - this scenario I am talking about was the alabeo titan 404 - I loaded the same flight plan in p3d and rc4 but does not follow in gps plan - going to try another flight without loading plan into p3d jsut use rc4 - thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Also noticing it does not guide me down to the runway - starts out fine but when it should give me a heading to turn on to arrival runway it does not - so far not seeing the benefit of this program

 

I did pick dep and arr runway in rc4 menu - not sure if that matters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For arrival RC4 does not have any guidance to a gate. For departure I believe it shows a general line of sight heading to the departure threshold.

 

In your first question I do not understand it. For departure RC gives you vectors if your first waypoint is not within 30 nm otherwise you get vectors to the first waypoint outside of 30 nm. Please see the manual regarding the three choices on departure.

 

When you choose the departure and arrival runways preflight or in-flight be aware that you may be introducing a conflict with ai operations which rc examines to choose runways as the first priority.

 

If you find yourself being directed opposite to what you expect, then:

 

1. you may have missed a waypoint credit in the RC plan. not acknowledging an RC command can cause this. See the extended menu command to select the direct to next waypoint and remember all RC vectors and expected headings are from your present position to the next waypoint in its status window.  Keep alert for the "resume own navigation" command from the RC controller.

 

2. on arrival if you missed the crossing restriction at 40 nm out you will get vectored around until you meet that altitude. In RC there is no way around the crossing restrictions (11,000 feet or FL110, 12,000 feet or FL 120 - which depends on arrival pattern). These emulate the hand-off altitudes from enroute center control to approach control

 

3. if you selected holding options you may get vectored around.

 

When you loaded the FSX format plan into RC, did the plan window in the preflight RC display (before you click start) match your plan?

 

The tutorials explain these various situations. At least read them.

 

Finally, RC does not care what is in your GPS or FMS system. It is up to you to insure your aircraft flies according to ATC commands. Use heading, altitude, and speed controls on the autopilot or MC panel as necessary. I'm not familiar with P3D but you export an FSX plan format from it, correct?

 

How do you create your plan? If any arrival or departure procedures are it in they need to be expanded to individual waypoints for RC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For arrival RC4 does not have any guidance to a gate. For departure I believe it shows a general line of sight heading to the departure threshold.

 

Hi Ron - I created a flight plan in p3d same as fsx saved it and then loaded it into rc4 - very short flight to learn rc4 - something is happening before I get to the arrival runway and maybe I'm not understanding the rc4 choices when I get to that area - I dont understand if its flying headings ordered by rc4 why even have a flight plan in the aircraft

 

I have tried this flight 10 times not once did it work by the way

 

Not using AI at all

 

2aiq241.jpg

tried this one too from simbrief - no luck

 

24v172r.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there anyway I can just follow my flight plan in nav and just have RC4 call out altitudes and not headings as its not working - RC4 is way off off the flight plan I have followed altitude constraints to the T - I like chatter and altitude call outs but not heading directions - thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if i recall correctly rc4 pretty much starts giving you vectors when you reach the 40nm threshold around the airport. both of those flights are barely 40nm and the first one doesnt have any waypoints at all so i'm not sure what you're expecting it to do exactly. once you reach 40nm instead of flying straight to the airport t will generally vector you to an appropriate position for approach (usually like setting up for a base leg 10-15nm away from the airport runway that is selected.) if you follow the vectors did this not happen?

 

maybe try it with a longer flight and i think it will make more sense to you what it is trying to do. normally you just fly your flightplan in the gps as you are asking for!! i don't think there is anyway to turn off the vectors completely, however you can request an IAP which might be suitable for what you are trying to do, but again that sort of defeats the point of having atc in the first place, it is there to give you final directions to the field. i think the IAP is mainly used by people who are flying stars and want to stick to them instead of flying the vectors when they get within the 40nm radius..

 

cheers!

-andy crosby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if i recall correctly rc4 pretty much starts giving you vectors when you reach the 40nm threshold around the airport. both of those flights are barely 40nm and the first one doesnt have any waypoints at all so i'm not sure what you're expecting it to do exactly. once you reach 40nm instead of flying 

 

 

Hi Andy I didnt - 1st off thanks for taking the time - I didn't fly 10 to 15 miles away from airport to see if it would work I would assume it would work right away and longer flight does make sense as I was thinking that but it should work for short flights also - I do short flights to make sure all is working well like new aircraft for instance do not want to spend a bunch of time and find out it didnt work - so these shorter test flights are how I go about it

 

Still cant get my head around atc changing my heading if I am tracking the flight plan in nav in aircraft - if that can be explained maybe I can understand it better - if it was close to the path of flight plan sure I can shut off nav and go to heading mode but when I do the requested heading is way different then the flight plan filed to begin with - this I dont understand

 

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Still cant get my head around atc changing my heading if I am tracking the flight plan in nav in aircraft - if that can be explained maybe I can understand it better - if it was close to the path of flight plan sure I can shut off nav and go to heading mode but when I do the requested heading is way different then the flight plan filed to begin with - this I dont understand

 

 

 

it's because the idea is that once you are being controlled by the airport they don't care about your flight plan, they are going to direct you into the proper spot for an approach and also avoiding traffic etc... typically you are NOT just going to fly directly on top of the field and then enter the pattern (although some stars and approaches do work this way.. but for simplicity's sake that's not the issue here)

 

since your flights are so short you are entering that controlled part before you ever need to fly your waypoints. here's a basic example of what it's trying to do with the kpym kpvd flight for example

 

GjPkApo.jpg

 

 

as you can see there is a pretty big divergence from the straight path to the airport and what you actually fly for a nice base leg turn. it could be an even more extreme difference depending on the runway direction and inbound direction..

 

the IAP thing is an option rc4 gives you when you start getting approach vectors (it says "request IAP" in the commands i think), i forget what it stands for, individualized approach procedure or something like that maybe? it's probably in the manual. basically it is for if you have a specific approach you are planning to fly rc4 will ignore you and let you fly it without yelling at you for not following directions. for just basic flying in most cases the vectors will get you lined up nicely for approach. 

 

cheers

-andy crosby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, I'm not exactly sure what is going on.  Andy's suggestion about flying a longer flight is a good idea.  First of all, I do know that direct flights don't really work in Radar Contact.  If the flight is short, maybe it will but in your case, it didn't.  If the flight is short with a direct flight, what I think Radar Contact would do is give a vector on to your GPS route.  Then sometime close to the arrival airport, they should either turn you base or give you a vector to downwind.  Oh yeah, if it does work and you get a downwind arrival, since it looks like your flying a smaller aircraft, I would request short final when about 10 miles away from the airport.  It's on one of the menus, you'll have to click next to see it.  Anyway, I hope this can be of help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's because the idea is that once you are being controlled by the airport they don't care about your flight plan, they are going to direct you into the proper spot for an approach and also avoiding traffic etc... typically you are NOT just going to fly directly on top of the field and then enter the pattern (although some stars and approaches do work this way.. but for simplicity's sake that's not the issue here)

 

since your flights are so short you are entering that controlled part before you ever need to fly your waypoints. here's a basic example of what it's trying to do with the kpym kpvd flight for example

 

 

Hmmm, I'm not exactly sure what is going on.  Andy's suggestion about flying a longer flight is a good idea.  First of all, I do know that direct flights don't really work in Radar Contact.  If the flight is short, maybe it will but in your case, it didn't.  If the flight is short with a direct flight, what I think 

 

 

Thanks much Guys looks like I need to try a much longer flight like KBOS to KJFK see what happens - theres not a lot of videos on rc4 and no tutorials as for me makes it a lot easier to learn - so I should just stay in heading mode when asked and stay there and pray I get directed to runway ? not return to nav I would assume ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- so I should just stay in heading mode when asked and stay there and pray I get directed to runway ? not return to nav I would assume ?

 

yes!!! follow the given headings and altitudes and you should end up in an excellent position to final approach and landing. there is no need for prayer, directing you to the runway is basically the point of having air traffic control :)    

 

good luck!

-andy crosby

 

p.s. that is not always necessarily true if for example you are doing an ILS landing, you will be likely re-enabling nav mode once you are cleared for finals and captured the localizer, but that will be AFTER the vectors set you up to the initial fix for that approach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, when you get handed off to approach at 40 miles, as Andy said, you have two options.  You have the IAP which means Instrument Approach Procedure and then you have radar vectors.  I would stay with radar vectors or if you fly a STAR which takes you to an IAF on the approach then you could fly with no vectors.  If you choose to do KBOS to KJFK and decide to use a SID and STAR you may get the STAR for KJFK which takes you to DEER PARK VOR which is the IAF for the 22 and 31 runways at KJFK.  If not, then I would stick with vectors.  Hope this helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes!!! follow the given headings and altitudes and you should end up in an excellent position to final approach and landing. there is no need for prayer, directing you to the runway is basically the point of having air traffic control :)    

 

good luck!

-andy crosby

 

p.s. that is not always necessarily true if for example you are doing an ILS landing, you will be likely re-enabling nav mode once you are cleared for finals and captured the localizer, but that will be AFTER the vectors set you up to the initial fix for that approach

 

Great thanks - appreciate it longer flight it is :) to bad off to bed have to make the donuts in 5 hours lol - let you know how things go - really want to figure this out as it is very nice and the voices are very believable - take care

 

Found that  I would request short final  in manual also so thanks AP1  for that - have to try that on short flight first :)

 

Ah posting as you were posting - got it thanks AP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're welcome and hope you get to have a successful flight.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There should be at least one waypoint between your departure and destination airports and the route should be long enough to accommodate it, about 100 nm minimum for a slower aircraft.

 

The point of having a plan in the aircraft is to give the pilot guidance and/or to control the aircraft at appropriate times. The guidance factor is for situational awareness.

 

The aircraft plan and the plan filed with ATC should be in sync. Unless you have terminal procedures (SIDs or DPs, and STARs) the plans should be in sync. If you have terminal procedures for specific runways and you choose to let RC dynamically assign them for weather and ai current patterns then it gets more complicated and within the 30 nm departure radius or the 40 nm arrival radius you would only include the common points for all runways in the plan sent to RC and your aircraft. If you wish to follow the terminal procedure stored in an advanced aircraft database in the plan sent to RC include only the common waypoints.

 

I use a planner that can update with the various utilities that have current waypoint, procedure, route, and navaid databases. Advanced navigation gear in your aircraft may also be updated with the database. If so, you can update your route in your nav gear when RC assigns an arrival and request an IAP from RC and let you nav gear navigate to the insect for final.

 

Remember RC is for flying a route under instrument flight rules although RC can work with un-towered airports (uncontrolled without approach or departure) in which case center can provide those services once you are in the air and advise ATC.

 

. . . but to start easily just send the plan to RC as you are doing with enough route length to include one mid waypoint and make sure the plan is accepted in sync.

 

RC mimics the real world procedure of filing a flight plan for IFR (controlled enroute or more) and then piloting the aircraft to fly the plan as filed except when advised differently by ATC.

 

Always check your clearance to insure it matches what you expect to fly.

 

Read up on the various traffic patterns used for arrival according to your approach to the assigned runway. RC needs a long enough journey to work you into the approach pattern required to intersect final.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


I created a flight plan in p3d same as fsx saved it and then loaded it into rc4 - very short flight to learn rc4

Rich, That route is only 33 miles. Hardly a reasonable distance for your aircraft to go through all phases of a controlled flight.

 

Have you flown the tutorial flights? If not then please do so. They were specifically designed to teach users the fundamentals of RC4.

 

And I know I've asked you this before but please consider putting some full stops in your sentences. The lack of them does make reading your messages more difficult. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this