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PMDG 747 -- problems and fix

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Guest B52Drivr

Hello All,I wanted to put a post up about the the new PMDG 747. I bought it the second day out, (along with a cast of thousands), flew it once or twice, knew immediately that this was going to be an 'FMC baby' and to enjoy this aircraft it was going to become very necessary to read and study the manual, and do my homework. I wanted to really get into it, so I made a first class effort to understand the complicated workings of this aircraft, it's FMC and all its systems. When I thought I had it down, we went flying again.I have to admit, to my best efforts, I was dissappointed, as something always cropped up which spoiled my flight, and usually it was in the FMC not working properly or the ILS capture.I went to the forum, (PMDG's), stated my case, got a few suggestions, tried them but no joy -- still massive ILS problems and it was becoming frustrating as this was NOT a cheap add on. Figuring it perhaps was a learning curve, I read the manual again, employed a neighbors help, (this neighbor is a retired 747-400 Captain with a bunch of hours in the left seat), and still no joy! After about 3 weeks of trying just about everything know to God and man, including the interium patch, I was very frustrated, wrote PMDG a e mail stating that if they couldn't fix this problem, I wanted my money back, no refund policy or not!Those of you who know me, understand that when I get my fur ruffeled a bit, I can be just a tad 'serious' and can be somewhat difficult to deal with -- (must be all my military time).ENTER RYAN MAZIARZ, one of PMDG's beta testers and one really nice individual. He contacted me via IM asked me a slew of questions pertaining to the 747 and we tossed several ideas around. By this time I was ready to delete it from my HD and become a pest until someone sent me my money back. Ryan never faultered, he just kept plugging away -- asking questions, taking note of my answers, and in that time, noteing his attitude, which was very helpful, I decided I'd give this bird one last try . . .meaning I would do everything he suggested in one last attempt to perfection.Ryan was most careful to let me know all of the 'known' bugs that they had which would be fixed in the first 'official' patch, and how to work around them, he also covered just about ever aspect where a pilot could screw up this machine. (Having never really flown a 747 this was still a possibility)We finally came down to "OK, lets get rid of what you have, (original download, and interium patch) and start new . . . there is a new download with the interium patch included, so you don't have to add anything, and install that and see what we get."I uninstalled the 747, (all files completely, going into all my FS files and making sure there was nothing left from the original install), defragged my HD, reinstalled with the new version, defragged again and then went back to my trusty flight plan, which would never do it twice the same way. HOLY FMC, BATMAN, THE ILS WORKED AND THE DARNED THING CAUGHT THE LOC!Ok, I was impressed, but not yet convinced, as I had NOT been able to change runways on the fly in the FMC and have it catch the LOC and APP. New flight, changing runways . . . HOLY FMC, BATMAN, IT WORKED ALSO!Ok, I'll spare you all of the comic book hero stuff, but now, with a half a dozen flights under my belt, this aircraft is now working properly and I am a very happy camper. Yeah, I'm sure it still has a bug or two, but what doesn't and those I know about I've been told have been addressed by the upcoming 'real' patch or new version.My point here is that PMDG, (Ryan I think had several conversations with RSR about my problems and both were willing to go the extra mile or so to help me out), and Ryan made every effort to try to insure that I could solve this problem and enjoy their 'baby'. It would have been much easier to just return my money, write me off, (I'm sure one sale wouldn't kill PMDG as this is a very popular add on) but no, they were intent on, if I wanted to keep trying, to hold my hand and help until we found out what was wrong.In truth, I'm still not sure what the real problem was, as others have not had this type of problem, while again others have another type of problem, but I have learned that this is a extremely complicated aircraft from the codeing aspect and all that it offers, and these people have taken the time to make a grand attempt to get me back in the air, functioning properly.NOW THAT IS CUSTOMER SERVICE THAT YOU DON'T GET MUCH ANY MORE!Lastly, they have taken a customer who was NOT very happy and made every effort to solve my problem -- I'm impressed and so is my neighbor who is the ex 747 driver. A big thanks guys to Ryan Maziarz and RSR for their time and effort in helping me sort out their child.They just wouldn't let me give up, and my appreciation is there in full force.Best to all and thanks for listening to this long tale of woe that has a happy ending.Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

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That's all very helpful information, but for me, PMDG still haven't solved my issue, so I might as well ask you, what is their refund policy? I emailed support inquiring about the refund policy and haven't yet received a reply, but it's only been about 30 hours, so I'll give them more time to respond, before it starts to bother me. Is there a possibility of getting a refund as I have a very valid reason for wanting one.Thanks,Jeff


Jeff

Commercial | Instrument | Multi-Engine Land

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Guest Peter Sidoli

JeffThe thing is that PMDG will perfect this aircraft as that is their style so wanting a refund? Maybe it might be better to hold on for the patch.I have had my own problems but strangely the desktop crashes have gone and the aircraft is working fairly well.From my perspective this is a winner a champion with teething problems but something special and deserving a little perseverance.My advice with any highly complex releases is dont buy until the inevitable patch/patches come out unless you are prepared to expect some problems first out of the gate.Peter

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Guest bobsk8

I was actually surprised when the 747 first was released a couple of months ago, and the servor was overloaded due to all the people trying to download it the day it came out. I am not a 747 type pilot, since I don't like really long hauls, but even if I were, I don't think I would have purchased the 747 for a few months at least. If I am buying it the day that it comes out, I am going to expect bugs and problems until all the kinks are worked out. With all the systems and add-ons that different people have, some issues are bound to crop up on a brand new complex product.. I think if people would wait at least 3 months or so after a product is released, they will have a much more trouble free product to use.

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That's true Bob. I guess now I realize that I should hold off buying a plane at least for a month after it's released. I guess it was kind of naive of me to expect that it wouldn't have any issues.Thanks,Jeff


Jeff

Commercial | Instrument | Multi-Engine Land

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Guest JeanLuc_

I know many examples of aircraft from GA to Airliner that do not suffer from any widespread massive bugs, and that many people have purchased trouble free since day 1.As demand increase, complexity increase and price increase with products being more and more professionaly crafted than before, I would expect no less that this from a new product nowadays isn't it?It is interesting to note from these various comments though that some (few? many?) in this market are still willing to accept that purchasing a professionaly crafted product with widespread bugs is still acceptable.Bear with me, when I refer to "widespread bugs" I infere this from "If I am buying it the day that it comes out, I am going to expect bugs and problems until all the kinks are worked out. " which infers that "any new product is undoubtely buggy".hope this helps!PS: I should add that this comment has nothing in particular with the 747, but more generaly from the repetive similar comments in various forums about "new products = expect bugs" and "hold 3 months before purchasing a new product because of bugs"

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Guest

>I know many examples of aircraft from GA to Airliner that do>not suffer from any widespread massive bugs, and that many>people have purchased trouble free since day 1.>Examples? And I am talking about a similar product in scope regarding complexities of systemsThe only one I can think of is the Dreamfleet/F1 727, which is one of my all time favorites

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Cheers Alex, I was just about to mention that one before I got to your post :-)The number of bugs in a release is directly proportional to the number of beta testers and the willingness of the developer to listen to what the beta testers are reporting........simple as that.Whilst the 747 'may' not have had enough beta testers (the doc's mention 27 by name) users can at least take comfort in the fact that unlike some developers and to their credit, PMDG have a track record in working through bugs with patches.http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg


Cheers

 

Paul Golding

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welcome aboard, good to know you got it fixed.I would like to say that I purchashed the product after the first interim fix. The puchase and install went very smoothly. I have used it about 20 hours now and have not experienced a single problem. As a result I have activly reviewed many of the issues that other are having and was unable to replicate them on my setup. What does this mean? I have no idea. I just wanted to let others know that, in my case at least, I have not had any problems with it.

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Guest

Hey Paul, when can we expect the new model for the 727?? I am looking forward to it.And in my 1 1/2 yrs in the software industry, the beta testers are overworked, underpaid, and so numb by the time the testing is over, if there are bugs in the finished product 99% of the time they were found but no solution was given, and the 1% slips by sometimes.

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Guest Peter Sidoli

PaulI think we use the word "bug" to freely to cover everything and anything.Having a problem with an exceptionally complicated addon aircraft and that problem really being that we havent read the manuals or dont really understand the system can be interpretated by many as the problem being a bug.Buying a long awaited aircraft brings with it a degree of excitement which usually means firing up your purchase as fast as possible only to find that sytems dont work in the way we anticipate.The fact that we percieve that they dont work means to us that the product is bug ridden, not that we dont know what the #### we are doing.bugs to me in relation to aircraft are faults which either cause crashes or stop a system working.Someone may make a visually accurate copy of a FMC. In reality their copy may only handle 20% of the functions of the real unit. Ie most of its functions are not modelled.The unit is accepted as incomplete and hence not labelled as buggy.Someone else may make a 90% functional FMC where some of the functions do not work in the way that is anticipated and this unit is classified as buggy.The more complex the aircraft and its systems the more scope for faults or bugs or may I add bugs in the knowledge of the user :-)Peter

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I totally agree with you Peter. My first few flights with the 747 were VFR as I couldn't be bothered to find out how to tune the radios. Not to mention the near stalls on a turn after departure - these things are a bit heavier than a 727 :-)However, getting CTD's on only one add-on probably means something is amiss. It's only happened twice and isn't repeatable, so it's not something I'm going to cry about or even report as a bug. As I said, it's PMDG, and they have a good record in working through things (both user error and programming issues) that crop up after release.........and that's what counts. http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg


Cheers

 

Paul Golding

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Guest

Didn't PMDG patch the NG, version 1.5 I think is the latest.So when can we expect the great 3 holer?? :)

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Depends on the massive definition :)Personally I was pleased by the "out of the box" LevelD, Ready for Pushback and DF 727. Also the complex system definition is changing. When you are able to get simulations in the GA with weather radar, TAWS, 1:1 GPS simulation, I believe that the amount of complexity involved is getting near or even surpasses some airliners. What is being different is the approach, no doubt planes like LevelD, PMDG, F1 ATR with systems build from the ground up without resorting to past implementations (which is different from code reusing) are more prune to bugs. Jos

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