Poor sounds?

[sizziano 172]

Filipe-

 

Thanks.  We will power through the drama- we have pretty thick skin after almost 20 years of doing this...

 

There is a HUGE amount of tribalism in the sim community- which I've never quite understood.  People are very emotional about their sim choices- and why they will or will not support products and developers- and those emotions often have nothing whatever to do with the product or the product quality....  Usually the loudest voices are the least informed and the most toxic- so we become quite good at separating wheat and chaff.

 

In the mean time- we have some interesting updates planned- nay-sayers and all. 

 

 

Robert,

 

I really appreciate the responses and your enthusiasm to improve upon the DC-6, I'm sure others  do as well. Can't wait for the updates you have planned for the ol' girl and for your future XP endeavors. I'm off to bed, cheers.

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Kris-

 

I have been fortunate to use ANR headsets my entire career.  I use them whenever flying, whether it be the DC-3 or a turbine of some type.  I haven't gotten the tinitus yet- but don't let on to The Lovely Dr. Randazzo...

 

It helps if she thinks I don't hear as well as I do.... 

 

Glad to hear some experienced chaps like the sounds.  We are definitely going to work out the doppler shift issue for external views- but i think the inside sounds are darn near spot on.

[Don Quixote 76]

When I pull my headset off while flying the DC-3 (or the DC-4 for that matter) and turn my head... The sound does not change.  It is not stereoscopic...  It is so loud and so overwhelming that you cannot change it by rotating your head around on a swivel...

 

[...]

 

Robert, I appreciate your response, and I'm glad to hear that you & your team are willing to work out some of the issues that have been raised. About the directional sounds - as most of us here I've not been lucky enough to fly in the front of a DC-6, or any similar aircraft for that matter, so I'll take your word for it. I guess it's not too different from standing too close to the speakers at a concert, where it doesn't matter which way you turn, it's just so bloody loud.

 

Anyway, the whole directional/non-directional issue really isn't much of a problem either way. But perhaps you can solve this confusion over sounds once and for all - please take a minute to compare the samples I've posted here (http://www.avsim.com/topic/489592-sound-issues/?p=3431654) and let me know which of the two is closer to what we are supposed to hear.

[chiswick72 145]

I don't think that most people are aware that the sound system implemented and provided by MSFS / P3D is vastly more functional than XPL. Functionality like 3D sound, direction based sounds, distance based sounds are all built into MSFS and P3D, all a sound engineer needs to do is use that functionality to add those effects to an aircraft, and for all of our MSFS / P3D aircraft we have added all these features. However, XPL has nothing like this, it does not even have a basic usable sound system. If you want to do anything in XPL you have to first build your own custom sound system, this is done by application programmers and not sound engineers. We are very lucky that Chris built a comprehensive sound system very similar in behaviour to FSX / P3D, to allow me to then design and implement the XPL sounds.

 

We decided that since this is our first ever XPL project, that we would add the other sound functionality people are used to in FSX / P3D in future releases, because Chris will have to implement this into the sound system first and then I can use it to design the 3D and distance based sounds.

 

But it is important to note that if you want to do anything in XPL related to sounds, you have to build your own sound system to do it, and not have the luxury of using the sound system that is already provided by the flight sim platform creator.

[chiswick72 145]

In my experience, the sound that you hear and feel on your own computer is heavily dependent on the sound card and speaker hardware that you use. You are never going to get the immersive sound experience that we designed through a built in laptop speaker, or a pair of 50 dollar desktop speakers that came with free with your PC. Investing in a mid range speaker system with a sub woofer will significantly enhance the sound experience that you hear and feel, because a lot of the sound work focused on adding mid bass and sub bass layers that you will never experience unless you have the appropriate sound hardware.

 

Also, I have noticed that other factors like onboard sound effects running on your sound card can also harm the sound experience. Many sound cards have reverb effects, 3D sound effects, noise cancelling effects and others which are on by default without the users knowledge, these also impact the sound experience you will get, and that's why we recommend that you check your systems for these effects and turn them all off.

 

And also, use the recommened sound levels that are provided, this will give you the optimal sound balance between the engines, panel sounds and AFE sounds. If still your engines are not loud enough then turn up the master speaker volume.

 

So in summary, for the best sounds experience use good hardware, turn off all effects and use the recommended volume settings.

[zmak 331]

In my experience, the sound that you hear and feel on your own computer is heavily dependent on the sound card and speaker hardware that you use. You are never going to get the immersive sound experience that we designed through a built in laptop speaker, or a pair of 50 dollar desktop speakers that came with free with your PC. Investing in a mid range speaker system with a sub woofer will significantly enhance the sound experience that you hear and feel, because a lot of the sound work focused on adding mid bass and sub bass layers that you will never experience unless you have the appropriate sound hardware.

 

Also, I have noticed that other factors like onboard sound effects running on your sound card can also harm the sound experience. Many sound cards have reverb effects, 3D sound effects, noise cancelling effects and others which are on by default without the users knowledge, these also impact the sound experience you will get, and that's why we recommend that you check your systems for these effects and turn them all off.

 

And also, use the recommened sound levels that are provided, this will give you the optimal sound balance between the engines, panel sounds and AFE sounds. If still your engines are not loud enough then turn up the master speaker volume.

 

So in summary, for the best sounds experience use good hardware, turn off all effects and use the recommended volume settings.

You nailed it. I hooked up my top of the range Sony home theater system to my PC (didn't even know it could be done) and BOOM the sound coming from the PMDG 777 blew me away completely. I imagine its the same for the DC6 and any other plane.

 

Simmers tend to leave sound as the least most important element when in fact the immersion level is second only to a top monitor.

[Old_As_Dirt 160]

I was a passenger in a military C-54, which should have a similar engine setup, and, while not a pressurized cabin, you could hear the "throaty" radials, but memories of 50 years ago can be distorted.  There are so many great things about this aircraft (yes, I own it) that I hardly pay any attention to the sounds.  Since it has been asked, an example in x-plane of radial engines can be found in the LES DC-3, which are quite good.  I'm sure that PMDG's people will explore the sound facet and will take whatever action they deem appropriate.  Their attention to detail appears to be top notch.  In the meantime, let's learn this marvelous aircraft and enjoy it for what it is.  Thank you PMDG, for taking an interest in the X-Plane community and for the feedback you are giving here.  It's good to hear the developer's comments and thoughts.

 

John Wingold

[Don Quixote 76]

So in summary, for the best sounds experience use good hardware, turn off all effects and use the recommended volume settings.

 

 

Thank you Armen for your posts and explanations. I'd like to extend my request about comparing sound files to you - please take a minute to listen to the sound file i've posted here (http://www.avsim.com/topic/489592-sound-issues/?p=3431654) and let me know if tha's what we are supposed to hear. As the sound engineer I'm sure you are the best qualified person to make that comparison.

 

As for the overall sound quality, let me once again state that it isn't poor in any way. In fact, after some of the slight tweaking I've done I like it very much. It's just that the differences between the "sound demo" video (also linked in my other post) and the actual sound in the sim are quite pronounced, and I'm confused as to which is the "correct" sound. Of course, Youtube videos are often (badly) compressed, which may have some influence on the overall output, but other videos out there also differ from the "sound demo" one.

 

On the point of hardware and correct settings, I used to dabble in HiFi a little and while I gave up that expensive hobby, I still like to think that my hard- and software are set up correctly (i.e. no silly filters, 3D effects, bass boost or other nonsense). While my small DALI speakers hooked up to a Yamaha amp aren't the greatest sounding thing out there, I've found that a pair of Sennheiser HD600 headphones hooked up to an Asus Xonar ST soundcard can equal the sound of a lot more expensive system.

No idea what other flight simmers use, but many of us do care about good sound, which is why we complain and nitpick about small issues, like in this case.   

[chiswick72 145]

Hi Steve,

 

I had a listen to the two versions and they are both fine.  Kyle's recording was made in the middle of the beta phase and since then I have continued to evolve the sounds - the main changes I made was to add more high frequencies in the mix balance.  That explains the difference in the recordings.  So there is nothing wrong, you are listening to different versions of the same soundset.

 

Now, if you prefer less of the high frequencies, you can always manually adjust the individual sound file volumes to get the sound mix that you prefer, but always back up you files before making any changes.

 

And finally, go with the recommended sound settings so that the panel sounds and voices balance correctly with the engines.

 

 

[Don Quixote 76]

Thank you Armen!! That's the information I was looking for all along.

 

With some slight tweaks I'm now happy with the sounds and really enjoying the DC-6. Well done guys.

[dbvetter 1]

Thanks Kris, let's see if it works

 

 

Dan Bounds

 

I can't get that same "signed Look" that everyone else has.

Edited June 6, 2016 by dbvetter

[Old_As_Dirt 160]

 

 

I can't get that same "signed Look" that everyone else has.

 

Click on your picture on this page.  Next page, at the top right, click on "Edit my Profile".  Next page, along the left side, click on "Signature".  Type your name in a block that looks like the one you respond to messages on any page and save/post it.