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kevinh

Instrument Glass Reflections

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I took the plunge and bought the DC-6 after the first update as it addressed my worries about the initial release. Overall I'm very pleased with the sim, apart from one thing. The reflections in the instrument glass seems excessive.

 

I've never sat in a DC-6, but I've spent a lot of time on classic airliner flight decks and usually the instruments have non reflective glass. As a result you look straight through the glass and don't notice it. You might see reflections in the glass of instruments off to one side, but looking directly at gauges in front of you there is no reflection. Photos online of DC-6 flightdecks show almost no reflections in the instrument glass.

 

The glass in the PMDG DC-6 is almost like a mirror. The instruments in front of the pilot show a clear reflection of the seat cloth. This is doubly distracting as in real life if there was a reflection it would be of the pilot, not the seat fabric. It's a nice graphic effect, but I don't think it's realistic.

 

Is there a way reflections can be reduced or made optional so users can disable them if they prefer? Alternatively is there a setting in X-Plane which can switch reflections off?


ki9cAAb.jpg

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It's a nice graphic effect, but I don't think it's realistic.

 

No?

 

IMG_6796.JPG


Kyle Rodgers

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I'll add that if your reflections are too bright, you probably have cockpit shadows disabled.  We recommend enabling cockpit shadows.


Vin Scimone

Precision Manuals Development Group

www.precisionmanuals.com

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Yes cockpit shadows are enabled (3D on aircraft). The problem isn't that the reflections are too bright, it's that they make the gauges look dull and without contrast. Photos of DC-6 flightdecks don't look like this.

 

Aircraft instrument glass usually has an anti-reflective coating. I suppose if the glass gets polished then that coating wears off.

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ki9cAAb.jpg

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Kevin, what is shown is very high fidelity representation of what is seen in the actual aircraft down to the miss matched dials due to replacements.

 

Prior to WWII the common method of providing some degree of anti reflection was simply a layer of tarnish.  Nice little article in Wikipedia here fyi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-reflective_coating

I had to look because I starting wondering what the state of the art was in the 50's.


Dan Downs KCRP

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Yes, I understand it is meant to be an accurate rendition o one particular aircraft. I don't have a problem with that, It's just an observation that I think gauges have more contrast and are more easily readable in DC-6 photos than they are in the X-Plane DC-6.

 

There is a photo of the actual aircraft flightdeck on airliners.net (which I can't link to here) and that illustrates what I mean. It's photo ID 685749


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There is a photo of the actual aircraft flightdeck on airliners.net (which I can't link to here) and that illustrates what I mean. It's photo ID 685749

 

Yeah but..., photos taken off the internet shouldn't be used as a reference especially when trying to convince PMDG that their own photographic survey and eyeballs need correction.  Just looked, it is fairly blurry on my 31-in 2K Samsung. Ironic that about the only thing I liked about XPL was the way that the panel rendered. I find it beautiful and realistic.  The inclinometer parallax error had me chasing trim problems that didn't exist for a long time until I move the viewpoint normal to the gauge... haha. By the time I figured that out I was on their sxxxt list.


Dan Downs KCRP

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Yes, I know photos aren't good evidence especially for colour, but they do show the reflections, or rather the lack of them. My question boils down to whether the glass reflections are an inherent feature of X-Plane, or something added by PMDG. In other words can they be made optional (like head shake)? I still feel the instrument backplate colour, which should be a very dark grey, looks too light. That is what creates the low contrast appearance.


ki9cAAb.jpg

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Yes, I know photos aren't good evidence especially for colour, but they do show the reflections, or rather the lack of them. 

 

Actually you can remove reflections when taking photos: Since reflected light is (mostly) polarized you can use a polarizing filter to remove most of the reflections.

 

Left photo taken with properly adjusted polarizing filter - right photo without a polarizing filter

 

500px-Reflection_Polarizer.jpg

 

Depending on how the photo was taken, reflections can be dramatically reduced in photos.

So I'm afraid photographs can't provide good evidence of reflections or rather a lack thereof.

 

 

Martin Peters

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My question boils down to whether the glass reflections are an inherent feature of X-Plane

 

Hi, many X-Plane add-ons (aircraft) feature this glass reflection, frankly I don't know if this is plug in driven or not feature. Anyway is a nice effect (imho) WHEN the gauges have good contrast for readability, perhaps the DC-6 gauges with reflections could have a little bit more contrast or a switch in preferences for turning them on or off (a la Carenado style), very sorry for the comparison.


Alexander Colka

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panel1.jpg

panel3.jpg

 

These are screengrabs from Just Planes DVD of the Everts DC-6. The Everts panel is a lighter grey, but the instruments will be largely the same as in the Namibian DC-6. You can see reflections in the glass but the contrast in the gauges is much greater and the reflections aren't distracting.

 

Having looked at the VC textures I've found a solution. I won't share it here in case editing those textures is against the EULA. Also I noticed that the low contrast is in the gauge textures themselves, especially the engine gauges. It is not related to the reflection effects. Personally I think this effect is overdone and the true colour of the gauge backplates should be more apparent in the VC than it is. Not being critical, just offering my opinion.


ki9cAAb.jpg

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From V5-NGC (our study bird - though this is an internet image...we have higher res shots from our own survey obviously):

 

V5-NCG%2BDC-6B%2BK.Gaskell%2BEros%2B1203


Kyle Rodgers

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Maybe it's subjective. The instruments in the above photo look clearer to me than how they appear in the sim. Obviously lighting differences could explain the colour differences between gauges in the photo and the DVD screeengrabs I posted.


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I have to say that in all the videos I have watched on YT of the DC6, the instruments have been perfectly legible. If PMDG have modelled a transient high reflecability as the sunlight passes through the cockpit then that is realistic. That's how it is with steam instruments particularly with a/c of the DC6's vintage. So you guys clamour for more realism and when you get it, "Oh no, it's not what we wanted!" lol


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