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Guest Sean I

Real world flying

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Well after 10 years of flightsimming I have finally got my hands on the controls of a real aircraft courtesy of my son who gave me an intro flying lesson from a local instructor for my 60th birthday. The aircraft was a Grumman tiger not one I've flown in the sim but a very forgiving aircraft for a novice. Once airborne I did most of the flying and found it remarkably easy to control the aircraft. The instructor just said choose a cloud and fly around it as way of getting accustomed to how the aircraft handled. The big difference with the sim is the feedback through the yoke and pedals, which is much firmer in the real thing. I was even able to handle the landing with a bit of help with the instructor to get the throttle setting right. In the sim I've landed many times on the simulator at my hometown airport YMER (Merimbula) and found doing it for real much easier particularly turning onto final and getting lined up with the runway. I'm fortunate to live on a very scenic part of the Australian coast so after this flight I can well understand how real world flying can get you in.Bruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Guest Ricardo Sevarant

You are right about one thing, flying a real aircraft is a lot easier than on the computer! Sit a high-time pilot down with zero desktop sime time and hook him/her up with FS2004. CRASH BANG SLAM Funny how it's not the other way around when sim pilots get into the real machines :)

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Guest jgreth123

Get a plane with a nicely-done Virtual Cockpit. Get TrackIR 3 Pro w/ Vectoring and you'll see it's not too far off, as far as visually helping ( your comment about getting lined up on final ).As far as real feedback in the controls... absolutely. In the real world you can FEEL what the aircraft is doing. You can use peripheral vision in the real world, you can't do that in the sim, even with Track IR ( though, this helps TREMENDOUSLY ).A few recommendations for a smooth Virtual Cockpit would be:General Aviation:RealAir Simulations SF.260 (http://www.realairsimulations.com/msfs-aircraft/sf260_2005/index.html)Dreamfleet Baron 58 (http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/Previews/B58/preview_home.html)Dreamfleet Bonanza A36 (http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/Previews/A36/preview_home.html)Carenado Cessna 182 Skylane II RG (http://www.carenado.com/ecommerce/buscador.php3?id_producto=38)RealAir Simulations Spitfire XIV (http://www.realairsimulations.com/msfs-aircraft/spitfire/index.html) [ This one is a WWII Fighter though ]Airliners:PMDG 747-400 (http://www.precisionmanuals.com/html/747400.htm)Level-D Simulations 767-300 (http://www.leveldsim.com/sevensix_products.asp)PMDG 737-600/700/800/900 (http://www.precisionmanuals.com/html/73767.htm AND http://www.precisionmanuals.com/html/73789.htm)There are 1 or 2 more perhaps, but I don't own them... Maybe the new Aeroworx King Air ? I heard they have upgraded it, but I really don't know, again, I haven't personally seen it.Oh and the Track IR! I can't forget to link that for ya!Main Track IR Pro (http://www.edimensional.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=32)Vector Expansion [very important] (http://www.edimensional.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=89)I hope this helps you.

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Congrats on your first flight!:D I know how I was after my first time piloting a real aircraft. It called being bitten by the bug. Once you get your first taste for real flying, you want to do it over and over again.I flew real aircraft long before I flew any virtual planes in FS. I found that FS was a lot more difficult than the real thing. I think it is because you don't have an inner ear and a seat telling you what the plane is doing.So when do you go for the private license or equivalent in Austrailia? In the states you have a private license that allows you to recreation fly.Kevin

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Congratulations! I can still remember my first flight after the flightsim peeked my interest years ago and I was surprised how easy it was to fly the real deal after flying on the sim. In my first lesson, my instructor even let me fly a complete pattern and do the landing. I was thrilled!However, it is a very expensive hobby - 5 flight lessons and I can buy all of the best add-ons for the flight sim. ;-)

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Guest Adverse Yawn

Congratulations!I used to own a Grumman Cheetah, the 150hp version of the Tiger (Tiger is 180hp). The AA5 family (Traveller, Cheetah and Tiger) are THE sweetest single engine tourers (spamcans) ever made. The controls are very light and very responsive, the visibility is fantastic and the cruise speed blows away the competition. When you eventually get a go in a PA28 or a C152 you will know just how heavy and sluggish other Spamcans are! The PA28 in particular has to be the most boring aircraft ever made (but still fun because flying is flying!).The AA5 is known as a pilots aircraft because it actually can be more demanding to fly than at first they let on. Very figety in turblance, somewhat more supseptible to Pilot Induced Oscillations (PIOs) than other spamcans (I've seen it happen more than once!), the fragile nose unit requires considerate handling on rough strips and CofG and take-off calculations need to be dilegently calculated because t/o performance tails off particuarly rapidly in hot, high or heavy conditions (certainly on the 150hp). There are a few AAIB bulletins around where pilots have managed to drop a wing in the flare resulting in the wingtip hitting the ground first. None of these things are a problem for a properly trained and reasonably diligent pilot who sticks is able to correctly control the approach speed on final. Other than a Super Cub, there is no better aircraft to teach you how to fly properly.But don't let anybody tell you that real life flying is easier than sim flying. It only seems that way until one day - wham! Nine times out of ten a pilot will get away with sloppy flying...

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Guest koorby

Goodonya Bruce! I am holidaying with my family at Eden over New Year's so that's a stone's throw from Merimbula. I wanted to take a flight while I was up there so your story has reminded me to make a booking. Grats on your first flight mate!

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Among control forces and peripheral vision, the other thing you don't have is any seat-of-the-pants or vestibular sensations to help you (or sometimes the case with vestibular sensations, harm you :-hah).----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach


John Morgan

 

"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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Yes, while real world flying may seem easier than the sim, I can well understand that this wouldn't apply in sticky situations if for no other reason than your kneck is not on the line with the sim. This particulat Grumman Tiger (see attachment) is the instructor's own aircraft so it is safe to say he is very familiar with it. Unfortunately, apart from the cost, because of poor eyesight I doubt that I could get a PPL; but I may have to do this intro lesson again and concentrate more on flying technique than sight seeing. Anyway this has added a new dimension to my sim flying and very appreciated birthday present.Bruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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I think it is the other way around. While this seems to be limited to the actual control and feel between RL and the sim, the fact is the majority who fly the sim never think of how many pounds they can top off in their plane and how long the runway is inclduding the temp and altitude. RL flying is nothing like the sim simply because those areas that matter greatly in RL do not matter in the sim so we as simmers seem to lack the needed attention to those critcal areas otherwise forsaken as mundane...[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]AMD 64 4000+|ASUS K8V DELUXE|SAPPHIRE ATI X800XT PE|MUNCHKIN 3200|80 gig SATA|DELL 1905FP 19" LCD|TRACKir PRO|PFC JEPPESEN MOONEY YOKE|CH PRO PEDALS|


Randy J Smith

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"The big difference with the sim is the feedback through the yoke and pedals, which is much firmer in the real thing."Hi Bruce (great name!),Yes, it's like comparing a live person to a corpse :)If I had the dough I would fly real stuff each and every day. FS is a great substitute though ( the corpse analogy was bad :) ).Bruce.


ASEL, Instrument.

KBJC, Colorado.

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HiI flew with Allan Lindsay from Merimbula Air Services (he is currently doing a delivery flight of a Grumman Tiger all the way to Perth). Taking a flight over this area is very scenic. We circled over a whale in Disaster Bay south of Eden then low along the coast - see photo attached of Saltwater Creek, a delightful little cove in Ben Boyd National Park and well worth a visit during your stay at Eden, about an hour's drive south from EdenBruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Guest Roadkill

I too am 60, and you are living my dream! I want to get my license before I am much older, even if just a sport license. It's encouraging that you find real flying easier than simming since I louse up my landings pretty often. Bob

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Hey Bob,I got my PPL at 51, my IR at 53, so you can do it!Talking about the original poster's experiences in real flight- the feedback forces one gets (constantly are present) on the controls give the actual plane the feel of a living thing.As I've written here before- I don't know what it is about aircraft pitch this is so hard to recreate with software- and this is not limited to FS, also present in the FTD that I use at our flight club as well. I'm no programmer, so have no idea what the limiters are in code. But the real thing is many times more stable in pitch!Bruce.


ASEL, Instrument.

KBJC, Colorado.

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