Sign in to follow this  
Guest Knikolaes

Flat Runways?

Recommended Posts

Yes, I know that currently FS only allows flat runways and I know that these can't be altered. What I was wondering (if anybody knows) was why? Why are FS runways all flat?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

far easier to automatically generate scenery that way.If you have over 20.000 airports (as does MSFS) you can't create them all by hand.By setting some restrictions like making everything on an airport at the same altitude and having a fixed set of building blocks to work with it gets a lot easier to create a generator that can create those airports for you.The number of parameters otherwise would be immense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

because then you end up with hangars that have one end 5 ft in the air, or are half buried in the ground. Just doesn't look quite right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inaccuracis in the terrain, unfortunately. If KPUB, for example, were based on FS terrain, runway 35 would be in a LOT of trouble.Now this rule IS just for default airports. There are a couple of add-ons available on AVSIM for bush pilot to land on slanted dirt strips, etc. in I believe the Oregon Mountains. I am also looking forward to someon making an airstrip in Laos as seen on Air America. . . with FSGenesis scenery THAT one should be a winner LOL.Now keep in mind you can't have an AFCAD for these as AFCADis indeed limited to the level flattens, however you can create strips on your own that have surfaces that are very much landable that are not level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I can see that but why can't everything just be based on the local terrain?"The local terrain in Flight Sim is too broad with even the best mesh available.Basically every airport would have to be created by hand and probably 90% of the airports would have to be surveyed by a person - provided that person would not get arrested for being on an airport and taking detailed measurements.Even STRM and USGS data is too rough, too broad for creating an approximate computer model of the terrain at an airport.If we could get that detailed terrain mesh - it would take about a 10.5ghz Pentium VI processor with 16 GB RAM to give you 20FPS.The multiple runway bush strips offer some interesting possibilities.Another thing is the way taxiways and aprons create their own flatten areas - so possibly airports with nearby ravines and drainage ditches could be created. I've seen some airports already where hills and high ground on the airport are modeled with "buildings" which look like a hill.There may be some interesting options in the not too distant future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect it comes from the way FS determines that an aircraft is on the ground.scott s..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A very good question, Victor, that probably only the FS Team can answer. And perhaps one of them will.I certainly don't have any idea, and, like everyone here, can only guess. But, I suspect it has something to do with the structure of the terrain. Until this version of the game, all polygons (LWM2, as you know) had only one altitude value. So it was not possible to have anything other than flat airports.We now have the possibility of different altitudes for every polygon vertex, so sloping and even complex slope polygons are now possible. Which means that if the FS Team has the time, they will be able to incorporate new AB polys that take into account the different runway elevations.Of course, this also means modifying the airport reference altitudes so that AI aircraft will not sink into, or float over, the airport.I suppose that the FS Team, too, are not satisfied with flat runways and that they are actively working towards a solution. As usual, give it time and it should show up in the next version of FS.Best regards.Luis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a real pilot who has gone into many turf/gravel/dirt strips, very few are perfectly flat. It ranges from slight rises, slight undulations and slopes from one end to the other. Unless these are very pronounced, they simply aren't a concern and unless you're familiar with the strip, you're not even aware of them until just before you flare for touchdown. Yes, I know -- there are some real doozies in various parts of the world but those are exceptions.But......In view of the various reasons put forth in this thread for not having "sloping" runways, it's interesting that if you land off airport, a helicopter will sit correctly on the ground when landed on a slope. I've never tried it with fixed wing -- maybe it will too, I wouldn't be surprised.Cal (CYXX)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>If we could get that detailed terrain mesh - it would take>about a 10.5ghz Pentium VI processor with 16 GB RAM to give>you 20FPS.>Sounds a lot like the type of machine you need to run FS9 with full slider settings, a high resolution, 100% custom traffic, flying in the VC of a detailed airplane, with real weather and a weather program, add-on scenery and detailed airpots, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>But......>In view of the various reasons put forth in this thread for>not having "sloping" runways, it's interesting that if you>land off airport, a helicopter will sit correctly on the>ground when landed on a slope. I've never tried it with fixed>wing -- maybe it will too, I wouldn't be surprised.>Airplanes will roll down slopes in FS2004 too. But it's back to the elevation data-point problem. X-Plane tried it in version 8, and ended up with too many airports resembling roller coasters. This version had to be corrected with airport flattening. Looks like to much "hand work" is involved, rather than just using published data.L.Adamson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>>>>If we could get that detailed terrain mesh - it would take>>about a 10.5ghz Pentium VI processor with 16 GB RAM to give>>you 20FPS.>>>>Sounds a lot like the type of machine you need to run FS9 with>full slider settings, a high resolution, 100% custom traffic,>flying in the VC of a detailed airplane, with real weather and>a weather program, add-on scenery and detailed airpots, etc.Not really. My machine is low end and I actually have what you just described as far as sliders, photo scenery, FS Genesis terrain, terrain vertex set to 22, live weather with activesky, ultimate terrain, 100 percent Project AI installed and running, 1280x1024x32 resolution flying aircraft such as the LDS 767, PMDG 737s and 747, etc. I also have Flytampa, Simglyers, OSS and other airport collections installed. The only time I have framerate hits are from the simflyers airports, because they used far outdated technology that crammed polygon counts into the area.The issue with the flattening of airports here is mainly just an issue that has been answered several times in this post -- too much hand work. Our machines can handle it. It's the developers that just cannot make enough time to take on the venture of hand doiong . . say . . 20,000+ airports.I still love FS though for everything we have accomplished up until this point. Looking at FS9 compared to FS2002, 2000 and even 98 and all I can say is "wow". FS10 is a LOOOONG way off, but FS9 certainly has enough to keep us busy for ages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>your machine is low end??Compared to what's out there, yeah. I hope next semester to upgrade to a socket 775 with the new PCI express and DDR2 memory.Sad part about technology -- you have the cool machine on the block -- a month later it feels like yer behind the times LOL. 1 year ago my machine would have been considered high end, but today it is blown away by what's on the market now.Pleasures of being a CIS major :-( Getting the status of your own machine shoved down your throat. That and every time I got a certification - it would come just in time for it to be outdated and useless.At least in the aviation industry -- you get your PPL, IFR, etc, it's good and won't be replaced just because a better plane comes out. If you decide you want to switch aircraft types, it's an option and won't suffocate you from the economy over demand.Good thing I changed my major.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If MS really wanted to do this for all airports and strips covered in fs, they must have some kind of data source available with detailed slope data. Does anyone know if something like this does exsist?I'm a little skeptical here, maybe for major airports it would be possible.I would love to see sloped runways in the next version. My guess is there will be a small number airports with sloped runways included in the next fs, but also an option to modify other airports, so freeware and third-party developers would have the possibility to create more and more airports featuring sloped runways throughout the world.best regards,C.G.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks Mike. I know that, whilst you won't reply here, you will read this.Also many thanks to the other replies.Victor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this