Hi,

I have a CLS A330 & A340 as well as a AeroSim B787. Both aircraft behave strangely when I load a flight plan with a SID. The aircraft climbs, I have LNAV and VNAV (aerosim) engaged and at 500' to 1000' I engage the autopilot. The aircraft makes a turn from the runway heading, flies a full circle and then joins the plotted course. Both publisher aircraft behave the same way (aerosim and Commercial Level Simulations). It almost appears as the first way-point is the end of the runway and since I fly the climb out manually the aircraft returns to the runway when the autopilot is engaged. I have enclosed a screenshot from the departure at LFPO (Paris Orly), where the aircraft just finished the 360 degree circle to join the route.

https://flic.kr/p/LtYKda

Any ideas why the circle?

Thanks

Edited September 23, 20169 yr by Jim Young
Corrected misspelling of deaparture in title. Was hurting my eyes...

It would be helpful to know what runway you are taking off from, and what is the name of the SID?

Al

Hi Al,

The Flight plan was from LFPO(Orly) to EGKK(Gatwick)

Departure runway: 26

SID: EVX5P

Interceprt: EVX 1st way point in enroute

Route: LFPO - D4.4POY 255deg/4.8m - PO246 239deg,4.3m - PO245 245deg/13.6m - MLN55 310deg/13.6m - EVX 326deg/19.9m ......

As I stated before this seems to happen on all departures with SID. The PMDG aircraft does NOT behave like that.

Thanks for help

Brgds

I can't find that SID in the Jepp charts I have looked at. In any case, if this doesn't happen with the PMDG a/c, then the problem would seem to be related to the flight plan programming of the other aircraft. After loading all the FP info, take a look at the sequence of waypoints. You may have to go in and delete one or more of the waypoints. Unfortunately, I don't have the CLS A330 & A340 or AeroSim B787. You might look for help on forums dealing with those aircraft.

 

Al

PMDG is a very much different level of system depth compared to CLS aircraft. I am not familiar with Aeorosim but basically the FS Labs A320 is the only other addon,

that I know of, that is at the same level as PMDG. With the CLS aircraft I assume you just load the flightplan with the default FSX route planner,

since they lack a functioning fmc (except some very basic features).

 

Anyway I think that the D4.4POY wayoint might be the issue. If two waypoints are to close, some aircraft/flightplanners might create a 360 degree turn

if they considered the aircraft unable to travel from the first to second waypoint directly. Have you tried to delete the D4.4POY waypoint to see if that helped?

 

According to Aerosofts Flightsim commander, the rwy 26 EVX5P SID has the following waypoints: PO245, MLN55 and EVX.

Hi Juergen,

 

I found the SID using FlightSim Commander (FSC). The first SID way point is about 8 NM from runway 26, so I don't see why the a/c would make a 360 turn after takeoff. The fact that the PMDG a/c doesn't do that further suggests the problem is with the CLS A330/ A340 and AeroSim B787, or perhaps with how the FP is being entered for these a/c.

I also don't understand the FP as you listed it above. For example, FSC shows PO246 located slightly 'past' PO245 as far as the route of flight is concerned, yet you seem to indicate above it comes before PO245.  Could the CLS A330/ A340 and AeroSim B787 databases be out of date? How are you generating the FP, and when you fly the FP with a PMDG a/c, are the exact same way points listed in the FMC as you show above? FSC lists the first few waypoints as BuboBubo indicated above. So the first way point after takeoff would seem to be PO245.

Or maybe I'm not interpreting the FP correctly?

Al

Hi All,

I have enclosed a link for screenshots showing the SID and the route. The route was generated in RouteFinder and used in Aivlasoft EFB to add the SID. The flight plan gets downloaded to the aircraft using the standard FSX flight planner. The way points show up exactly as shown in EFB on the planes CDU. So after takeoff the aircraft makes a right turn, full circle and joins the route. I made a mistake in the original SID way point list, there is no PO246. I will try a PMDG aircraft again and check the FMC for way point listing.

Al, do you have a link to FSC. Trying for awhile to find it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141330124@N05/shares/M8L63u

Thanks for help

CLS doesn't have a database at all but relies on the outdated FSX nav-database,

Hi,

Here is what I found out:

I used the same flight plan, except in .rte format in the PMDG 737-800NGX. The route shows up with a 360 degr. circle around the end of the runway (see screenshot). Then I generated a route w/o SID from LFPO to EGKK and downloaded that to the PMDG FMC. I added the SID "EVX5P" from the departure page of the FMC and executed the route. The route shows up on the ND just like on the EFB with straight out departure (see screenshots).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141330124@N05/shares/jj356s

So it seems to me that you can only fly a SID reliably by hand and NOT download a SID with the route when flying a CLS or AeroSim aircraft? Btw, the circle as shown on the PMDG NG does NOT appear on the CLS or AeroSim NG; just shows the departure route as show in the EFB SID display. So you don't know if it flies a circle until you engage the autopilot!

Thanks

Juergen,

 

I see the first  .rte FP in the 737NGX FMC shows a heading of 152 degs back to runway 26 as the first way point – thus the circle. The second FP does not have this way point.  So as I mentioned previously, you may have to adjust way points in the FP.  It is the pilot’s responsibility to check the FP for duplicate way points,  gaps, way point altitudes and speeds,  etc.,  against the maps.  As I recall, PMDG makes this point in one of their 737NGX tutorials where they ‘fix’ a FP after it was loaded in the FMC.

 

So the CLS A330/ A340 and AeroSim B787 aircraft simply followed the FP they were given and flew the circle – can’t fault them for that. The PMDG 737NGX would have done the same thing based on the first .rte FP.   Why the RouteFinder FP had the return to Rwy26 I don’t know.

 

FlightSim Commander is a payware program -- http://www.fscommander.com/

 

BTW, if you are interested in updating  the FSX database,  see  http://www.aero.sors.fr/index.html

 

Al

Hi Al,

Thanks for your detective work. I did NOT see the 152 degs way point on the CDU in the PMDG aircraft. I can also NOT explain where it comes from, since it was not in the route , which was executed in the Aivlasoft EFB (see the screen shots 3 replies up). So it did not occur to me to check for these type of errors again. I will do from now on. I checked the AeroSim B787 and sure enough the 1st way-point shows up as 148 degs back to runway 26 (see screen shot)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141330124@N05/shares/hh1LTg

Also, thanks for the link(s) I will look into the updater, since I had several ILS frequency discrepancies already.

I did a test with the Aerosoft A320 and it adds several waypoints to the sid. However it did not add any circle back to rwy 26.

 

I think the best solution for you is to adjust your flightplans depending on what aircraft you plan to use them in. I would recommend to not include sid/star or dep/arr

runway information into the flightplan itself.  I always leave those parts out and then add them in the aircrafts FMC once I have loaded the flightplan in the FMC.

 

CLS aircraft are completely different since they don't have a working fmc (they have one but it doesn't really do anything).

I always do that with the PMDG 737 and 777 but can not add SID/STAR after you loaded your flight plan in AeroSim or CLS.

I guess the only A/C are PMDG & Aerosoft which have a working FMC. I believe I can NOT remove way points from either CLS or AeroSim (unless its the first waypoint you can do a -direct to)?

Thanks for the help