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landing help

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what is the best way to land on runways that don't have VOR,DME,ILS,GPS or charts, like Bicycle lake Ca,now with the CS C-130 I know from a certain distance and alt if I start decending about 500 to 800 FPM I'll land but how do I find out my distance with out looking at the GPS

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without nav aids you just have to do it by feel. look up the altitude of the airport, and make a pass to judge where you need to be to land properly.

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A good exercise is trying small airfields with small aircraft.You have to rely on your eyes.

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>what is the best way to land on runways that don't have>VOR,DME,ILS,GPS or charts, like Bicycle lake Ca,now with the>CS C-130 I know from a certain distance and alt if I start>decending about 500 to 800 FPM I'll land but how do I find out>my distance with out looking at the GPS Go ahead and look at the GPS. I have for about 15 years now.L.Adamson

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DavidIn such circumstances - presuming you are talking unmanned airports with no ATC - you should always take a look at the airport from the approved approach height (usually not less than 1500' AGL) as Tord says and then enter the pattern if all is well. Not only will this give you local wind direction when you spot the sock but will also assure you that the runway is clear of traffic or obstacles. Then by flying a pattern approach, you can safely calculate your descent and speed.I'm guessing you're talking small stuff - GA etc. - in these circumstances. There are unlikely to be many occasions when you are flying a 737 into an uncontrolled airport.As for those who just fly straight in on GPS ... well, I'll leave that to them ;-). They probably call up SHIFT/Z to determine wind direction too, which is a bit tricky to do in the real world! Anyway, FS is different things to different people. I take a fairly traditional approach to things, I suppose, flying the DC-3 most of the time. I did see a GPS once, but it looked far too complicated to me ;) .MarkEDIT: Just re-read your post. C-130! Yikes. I wouldn't be flying that straight in without having a VERY good look first, for sure, if you have no air traffic control.Mark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

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I'm no expert, but here's a technique I like to use. Some planning can help here. I assume the C-130 has dual VOR radios?If so, chances are you can fly a VOR radial that crosses the approach path of the runway at a distance from the runway at which you can start your approach. If you can find another local VOR, find the radial of this second VOR that crosses the point at which the first radial crosses the approach path. Set up your second radio to this VOR and radial. Flying the first radial, when you see the needle of the second VOR start to move to center, you can start your turn to the runway. If you plan properly, and you'll have to practice so you can figure out how to start your turn appropriately, this should get you into your runway. Hope the pic makes sense. _/ *VOR 2 / / ______________ / |____________0_|___________________/____________________/ |____________-_| *VOR 1

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I believe he's asking, "how do you know how far you are from the airport without looking at a GPS?" Pilots will report their position as so many miles from the airport, etc., etc. How do they know how many miles out they are if they don't have a distance measuring instrument of some kind?Is that what you were asking?Dewey

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Assuming that you want to maintain some semblance of reality, you have to have AT LEAST the appropriate and current navigation chart on board in order to fly legally. If you don't have the actual chart, you can just use the FS Map to simulate the chart and figure out your distance that way.Regards,Jim

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If you know how high you are off the ground you can estimate your distance from a point by looking at the point where you intend to land relative to point on the window or other aircraft fixture. For example, when I am in a left downwind 1000' above the airport I know I am 1/2 mile away from the runway when the runway appears to intersect the lift strut of the C172 about 1/3 way from the bottom of the left window to attachment point on the wing. If the runway appears to intersect the lift strut at a point closer to the bottom of the window, I am closer than 1/2 mile. If the runway appears to intersect the lift strut at a point closer to the attachment point on the wing, then I am much further out than 1/2 mile. This is precisely the procedure that others refer to as 'getting a feel', but who fail to describe any specific steps for doing so.

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Hi,Landing at Bicycle Lake Ca in a C-130 seems like a job for a properly trained A.I pilot or twooo. However if you contact ATC and say you want to land there, you can then contact them and ask how far away you are as you are a stranger in these hyar parts and they will tell you. I think! This only works for a relatively short distance- maybe 20 or so miles from the airport ,but at least you could work out from your flying speed and the ele of the airport how high you ought to be 8 mins from the lz (at approx 160 kias let's say)and that would then give you your 500fpm descent to the runway.Andy.

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For strips without any DME or ILS, you use either charts for the approach and go by VORs or NDBs or fly the standard traffic pattern.Pat

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The best way is by sight. pick a spot on the runway that you want to be your aiming point (usually the numbers or one of the first two stripes). If it appears to move further from you, you'll be short of that point. If it appears to move nearer to you, you'll go past that point.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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