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Gregg_Seipp

2.0.1.19 bug switching to departure

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On departure from KIAD I was told to contact departure.  I pressed Com2 where I had the departure frequency dialed in.  I made the call to departure and got an exception and P2ATC shut down. 

 

After that things went pretty okay.  I restarted P2A still in my climb, reloaded my flight plan, set cruise, and made a call to Departure and it communicated with me.  Er...well...I told it I was climbing through 10,000 for 12,000 and it said roger.  But it was pretty quiet after that.  I went ahead and turned on course to my first fix (figured it might be a little confused).  Then I requested a climb to FL240 and it gave it to me...hmmm...no frequency change.  Let me see here.  Oh, it came up on Com1 and I didn't notice so I was talking to KIAD tower.  Hmmm.  How about, "Dulles Departure 72V with you at FL240."  "72V squawk 3100.  Contact Washington Center on..."  Ah...that got it.  Got a new squawk and frequency change.  Got a descent at TOD and told to expect a STAR which it assigned itself and to expect the ILS.  Not bad.  Everything went well after that. 

 

So, just the exception.  I still have to work on my phraseology.

 

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I forgot to mention, this happened to me twice...com2 both times.  Departing KIAD on an IFR flightplan with a STAR using the Flight1 Mustang.  Once the first time I tried P2A a few days ago with 1.18, today the second on 1.19.

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I did the same flight again...short flight from KIAD to KRDU. This time I used Com 1 and things went pretty well.

 

  • No lag this time.  The app responded well.
  • There were some times where I had to repeat what I said several times...nothing in the print out.  Not a huge deal.  Maybe need some more speech training?
  • I flew the JDUBB1 departure, JDUBB transition (which is just vectors to JDUBB, really.)  I took off expecting vectors and realized...after a while...that I wasn't getting vectors...or even a Direct JDUBB.  So I just made the turn and flew direct.  *shrugs*
  • I did get a hang after being given a frequency change to Center further out.  I killed the app and restarted it, reported "Center, Citation 72V with you at FL240" and it picked me right up.  Good stuff...I kept blazing through the sky.
  • It kept telling me to squawk what I was already squawking with every frequency change.  No need for that unless there's another reason.  A change of squawk is used to radar identify an airplane but that was already done by Departure.
  • Speaking of which, I was never told "Radar contact" by Departure...usually the first thing they say once you're identified (that's the only time you'll hear that unless radar contact is lost for some reason...like, maybe, after the app is restarted.)
  • It would be great to get the altimeter when assigned an altitude below the transition altitude if you were above it.
  • Turn to ILS final at KRDU was bad.  I was way, way above the glideslope and had little time to transition from base to dogleg to final.  Yikes!  I hand flew it down.  Maybe I had been descending too slow?  When that happens in the real world, I've seen controllers ask a pilot to expedite descent, vector an airplane through final (they tell the pilot if they do), issue a 360, turn them to downwind to let them descend.

But, overall, really nice!  The fact that you can recover after a problem is great!  All the things that went right far outweigh what went wrong.  Impressive!

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Gregg,

Thanks for the detailed report.

 

  • I'll look at that departure and see if the data has what is needed to know it's vectors.
  • The squawk is only given if you have the wrong code entered, which you didn't, or if the Transponder Mode in Pilot2AC is not Active.  This is either because you did not set it, or in a lot of cases, you set it in the cockpit of a 3rp party aircraft that does not let FSUIPC know that it changed.  Just check it in P2A and this should all go away.
  • If Departure doesn't recognize your initial call as an initial contact call, you won't get the Radar Contact.  An initial call is something like "<CallSign> at FL 230"
  • You should get the altimeter when given a descent to below the Transtion level.
  • You may have been descending too slow, or your groundspeed may have been over 250 during the descent, which then made your descent too slow for your speed.  The TOD assumes you will abide by the speed restrictions in the STAR/Approach and the below 10000 ft speed restriction of 250.  You can ask for vectors to the ILS if you find yourself in this situation (too high) and you should get them.  Of course it will take you back out away from the airport and should give you good altitudes coming back.  Or go missed approach and request vectors to ILS.

Thanks again,

Dave

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The squawk is only given if you have the wrong code entered, which you didn't, or if the Transponder Mode in Pilot2AC is not Active. This is either because you did not set it, or in a lot of cases, you set it in the cockpit of a 3rp party aircraft that does not let FSUIPC know that it changed. Just check it in P2A and this should all go away.

 

Oh...ha...that's the Mustang for ya.  It may do it's own thing.  Now I know.

 

 

 


If Departure doesn't recognize your initial call as an initial contact call, you won't get the Radar Contact. An initial call is something like " at FL 230"

 

Ok.  I think I said "Departure, C72V with you through 3,800 climbing to 12,000" or words like that.  In any case it acknowledged me and things kept progressing.  Got a climb to FL200.

 

 

 


You should get the altimeter when given a descent to below the Transtion level.

 

Hmmm.  I got a descent from FL240 to FL180 then down to 12,000...no altimeter.

 

 

 


You may have been descending too slow, or your groundspeed may have been over 250 during the descent, which then made your descent too slow for your speed. The TOD assumes you will abide by the speed restrictions in the STAR/Approach and the below 10000 ft speed restriction of 250. You can ask for vectors to the ILS if you find yourself in this situation (too high) and you should get them. Of course it will take you back out away from the airport and should give you good altitudes coming back. Or go missed approach and request vectors to ILS.

 

My speed was about 180 (a little warm...ideally, it would have been around 140.)  The max speed in the Mustang is 250.  I've pondered the altitude changes which were coming fairly quickly.  I'd never flown into KRDU before so I wasn't sure what to expect.  I was on vectors.  Got a turn to base and then, 5 seconds later, a turn to dogleg and a clearance for the approach (might be good to get a position ("C72V...5 miles from PRESTN, turn right heading 205, cleared for...") Fifteen or so seconds later, localizer was alive...things were happening fast.  The GS was pegged at the bottom of the indicator when I was cleared.  I'll try it again with more ordinary speeds and more mindfully.

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Very interesting indeed, I was wondering about the Squawk request at each new contact...

 

It seems that the Q400 Pro is not compliant to FSUIPC for Squawk mode, but also P2A is not able to set Com & Nav frequencies (it is able read them only fortunately).

 

I think the A2A Cherokee has the same issue.

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Very interesting indeed, I was wondering about the Squawk request at each new contact...

It seems that the Q400 Pro is not compliant to FSUIPC for Squawk mode, but also P2A is not able to set Com & Nav frequencies (it is able read them only fortunately).

I think the A2A Cherokee has the same issue.

 

I thought they made the Mustang compliant with vPilot with the new release but I don't know what it means here.

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On the speed of the vectors during approach.  You can slow things down by setting the Vector Leg Distance to a higher number.  The default is 2, so making it 3 might be about right if you're going 185.  For jets going over 200, 4 works well.

 

Dave

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On the speed of the vectors during approach. You can slow things down by setting the Vector Leg Distance to a higher number. The default is 2, so making it 3 might be about right if you're going 185. For jets going over 200, 4 works well.

 

Good to know. My next thing was to try out an A320 flight.  I was really behind the eight ball there.  Maybe might you make a change to make that adjustment automatically someday?

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I did the flight again with the vector leg distance set to 4 and it's much more practical. 

  • This time I turned on the Ident for the transponder next to the runway so no more telling me what to squawk (you should rename that to Mode or something...Ident is something else.)
  • I got to Tower and it cleared me for takeoff...squawk 1200 even though I had an IFR clearance.  I went back and got it again with a new squawk and then went back to tower.
  • Everybody and their brother said "Radar Contact".  :)  Should only be Departure but, okay.
  • I pressed the aircraft Com2 speaker to listen to ATIS on Com2 while working with ATC on Com1.  Took me a minute to figure this out, but it made the assumption I wanted to talk on Com2 to talk in P2A (my Mic in the cockpit was set to Com1).  So, when it told me to switch frequencies I did it on Com1 and everything got goofy (kept telling me to switch to 124.5 and I'm thinking I'm already on 124.5...aren't I?)  Sigh.  I figured it out and got things back in order.  I established contact and then had to ask for a descent which went fine. 
  • It didn't give me an altimeter so I asked for one and (surprise) it gave it to me.  Gave it to me again on its own when it cleared me for the approach.
  • It hung again when it switched me to Approach.  Kill, restart, reload flight plan, make the call...everything is fine.
  • All of that radio business got me behind on descent but I dropped like a rock and got down to approach to have a nice transition using the 4 mile vector width.  More smiles.

All's well that ends well.  No show stoppers.

 

I had some serious traffic around KRDU...a 777 went 300 ft under me on approach to the same runway.  I saw him on TCAS and then out in front of me.  Traffic would be a nice addition.

 

Also, IFR aircraft are almost always "Contact Departure" when about mile out.  I think what P2A is doing is waiting 5 miles.  Very seldom does tower give them a higher altitude...though, I'm sure it happens from time to time.  Not sure if there's a reason for that.  I suppose I could set the tower range to 2 miles when I'm flying IFR.

 

Next flight will be A320 short hop from KRDU to KATL.

 

Could you move this to the bug thread?  That's where it should have been when I made it.

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Gregg,

Thanks again for the writeup.

  • The Ident label is the Ident Switch.  It will squawk Ident if you push it, but right now, it is not used yet.  Until then, I'll change it to Mode.
  • Tower asking you to squawk 1200 would happen if you didn't have a flight plan filed, which apparently you did, or if you made changes to the flight plan after filing that invalidated ATC's version of the flight plan. 
  • The Radar Contact call is the response to your initial call to airborne controllers.  While in the real world it is only used on the first contact or after radar contact is lost, it is done each time in Pilot2ATC to establish that contact has been made.  Future enhancements will change this and also use the Ident button.
  • Pilot2ATC uses only one Com Channel at a time.  Another area for future enhancement, but not a priority.
  • Working on the lack of initial descent Altimeter advice.  Should be given on first descent below Transition Altitude or before approach to the arrival airport.
  • The hangs are a known issue associated with new code relating to Frequency Changes.  Hopefully to be fixed in next update.
  • Pilot2ATC does not control the AI Traffic or it would have sent that 777 around.  Controlling AI Traffic is on the wish list for future development

 

Glad you survived another flight.

Dave

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The Ident label is the Ident Switch. It will squawk Ident if you push it, but right now, it is not used yet. Until then, I'll change it to Mode.

Tower asking you to squawk 1200 would happen if you didn't have a flight plan filed, which apparently you did, or if you made changes to the flight plan after filing that invalidated ATC's version of the flight plan.

The Radar Contact call is the response to your initial call to airborne controllers. While in the real world it is only used on the first contact or after radar contact is lost, it is done each time in Pilot2ATC to establish that contact has been made. Future enhancements will change this and also use the Ident button.

Pilot2ATC uses only one Com Channel at a time. Another area for future enhancement, but not a priority.

Working on the lack of initial descent Altimeter advice. Should be given on first descent below Transition Altitude or before approach to the arrival airport.

The hangs are a known issue associated with new code relating to Frequency Changes. Hopefully to be fixed in next update.

Pilot2ATC does not control the AI Traffic or it would have sent that 777 around. Controlling AI Traffic is on the wish list for future development

 

  • Ident...okay. 
  • 1200...it read it to me.  Hmmm.  I wonder if I taxied to a runway for which I didn't file it?
  • Radar contact...okay.  I'd make those occasional ident requests optional for those airplanes where their transponders are weird.
  • One Com channel...understood.
  • Traffic...yes, I was hoping for just a traffic call.  I noticed the "Traffic Alert" thing on the config.  Traffic alerts are somewhat more severe than normal traffic so not sure what it means or what it's used for if at all.

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Traffic Alerts option is to turn Traffic Calls on and off, and you can set the altitude and distance parameters as well.  Some people like lots of calls and set these to high numbers, I like minimal calls and set them to 2000 ft and 2NM.  Your choice.

 

Regards,

Dave

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2000 ft and 2NM. Your choice.

 

Aha!  Very good.  Apart from the hang, it was a good flight if you don't count my radio goof up.  It would be nice to be able to dial up ActiveSky ATIS on Comm2 for a listen but I can use Comm1 for now. 

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I did the flight in the A320 from KRDU to KATL.  Went pretty much normal.  Had one freeze on departure (recovery went fine).  It did give me an odd taxi route on small taxiways for a large aircraft.  I just used a different route to the same place.  Not sure if there would be any way for software to figure that particular item out.

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Just to add. I did a flight today from ENZV to ENGM. 737-800. I have not been able to get the ATIS even though I have it checked and have a voice assigned to it. Received my clearance with no problem. Another issue I've been having is getting clearance to pushback. I called ground requesting pushback and start and was immediately given taxi instructions with no clearance to push back. The rest of the flight went as planned until I had started my descent. I was assigned a STAR and runway 19R. While I was flying the STAR approach advised me that I was off course and gave me another heading to fly. I ignored it since I was on course. As I got withing about 10 miles of the airport, I was cleared for the ILS 19R by approach but I was never handed off to the tower. Again, none of these issues were show stoppers.

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One thing I forgot to mention.  I got A LOT of errors, "Say again with callsign."  I was Delta701 and it wanted Delta seven zero one....should have been 'Delta seven-oh-one'.  Not sure if it's possible for it to look for 'Delta four thirty-three', 'Southwest thirty-one thirty-eight' and stuff like that.

 

Also, often, when I say the facility name I don't get a response.  "Dulles Ground....blah blah" gets ignored whereas, "Ground...blah blah" is often understood.

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Yep, it only understands Zero for 0.  The other ones should work.

And yes, it has  trouble recognizing proper names like that.  They are added to the grammar dynamically, but the recognition engine may not recognize the pronunciation because all it has to go on is the spelling. 

 

Regards,

Dave


Mike,

What airport were you at for the ATIS and pushback issue?

On the approach, did you enter the STAR and Approach and press the Validate key?  That ensures the proper path is displayed on the map.

 

Dave 

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What airport were you at for the ATIS and pushback issue?
On the approach, did you enter the STAR and Approach and press the Validate key?  That ensures the proper path is displayed on the map.

 

Dave,

          I was at ENZV but I had the same issue yesterday departing ENGM. I did not enter the star. I usually never access the UI once I file the flight plan.

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Yep, it only understands Zero for 0. The other ones should work.

 

Oh...so I'll avoid putting 0 in a callsign.  Simple enough.  In terms of facility names, can I train it?  Like bring up a word processor and say "Dulles" and when it gets it wrong say "Correct that"?

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You can train it in Pilot2ATC.  Using the Grammar Helper screen Training.  You should do  the standard training anyway, if you haven't already.  Instructions start on page 51 of the User Guide.

The Trainer allows you to enter custom phrases you want to train on, so enter a few with Dulles in it and it might figure it out.  I actually haven't tried that.

 

Let us know,

Dave

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I was playing around today at ENGM. No atis but I was able to get pushback clearance.

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