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tonywob

X-Plane 11 new autogen

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This is really an improvement. That would give a more realistic touch in France and Italy as well, at least north Italy.

Now if only LR could get rid of those crossed billboards trees in the foreground ...I know...I know...one thing at a time :)

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I think the trees aren't too bad. The fact that it has to render thousands of them seems the best balance between performance and appearance. That being said, if there was a way for them to be higher detailed closer up and degrade to billboards in the distance would be great.
 

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At least having red roofs in Europe will be an improvement.

 

 


LOL, are they not already?

 

There was a popular joke in Europe just after the first Greek crisis that went something like the following.

 

Angela Merkel, when passing through Athens International was briefly questioned at immigration:

 

Immigration Officer: "Name?"

Ms. Merkel: "Angela Merkel."

Immigration Officer: "Occupation?"

Ms. Merkel: "Not this time."

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LR made a joke during the presentation in Cosford that Brits wouldn't like the German theme because of some recent important vote :-)

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@Tony

Should we wait for a France PRO  :wink:  Would be cool. Are those screenshots photoreal? The overlay layer of vegetation looks so great, an improved Orbx I'd say.

 

Regarding trees of course in the long distance they are good but at medium/short range the average autogen trees  break immersion especially at certain time where shadows make them ugly. In this case I think the best solution would be to have rotating one side BB, the result in FS world is definitely better when flying low or at airport.

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Should we wait for a France PRO    Would be cool. Are those screenshots photoreal? The overlay layer of vegetation looks so great, an improved Orbx I'd say.

 

I removed the shots and I'll start another topic (I moderated myself for going off-topic  :Tounge: )


 

 


In this case I think the best solution would be to have rotating one side BB, the result in FS world is definitely better when flying low or at airport.

 

Is that how this works in FSX/P3D. I can't remember, but I do know the trees seemed to look better there.

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Wow! These models will work great here in Norway! Let´s face it: They look a lot more european than the US autogen :Tounge:  Hope that they will work fine in conjunction with the World2Xplane World Models @Tonywob? 

Either way - great news! Cant wait for 11! 

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Hope that they will work fine in conjunction with the World2Xplane World Models @Tonywob? 

 

There's no reason why it shouldn't. Although, the world-models buildings look bad compared to these. What I'm curious about is how it looks outside of cities. If all the houses look like this (even in small villages), it will look quite odd. 

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There's no reason why it shouldn't. Although, the world-models buildings look bad compared to these. What I'm curious about is how it looks outside of cities. If all the houses look like this (even in small villages), it will look quite odd. 

I can see in the upper left corner of the first image an area with low residential houses, I hope that outside town these will be used though I don't know how they can detect and define the city (better city centre)  boundary.

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The most interesting thing about the new XP11 autogen is (imho) that 3pd's can create autogen for whatever region they want. Out of the box, so I understood, Europe will look German all over but when people start working on this you can get Dutch autogen, Italian, Norwegian, French, whatever.

 

I have to add I am also curious what the autogen outside of cities like this one look. And what about suburbs or modern city centers.

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The most interesting thing about the new XP11 autogen is (imho) that 3pd's can create autogen for whatever region they want. Out of the box, so I understood, Europe will look German all over but when people start working on this you can get Dutch autogen, Italian, Norwegian, French, whatever.

 

Well you can do this already in XP10, it really is no different. I did exactly this for my Czech/Slovakia building sets. 


 

 


I can see in the upper left corner of the first image an area with low residential house

 

It looks like the default trailer park homes again, but hard to be sure from the screenshot :/

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I hope that outside town these will be used though I don't know how they can detect and define the city (better city centre)  boundary.

This (knowing where what kind of urban density we have) is indeed a very complex topic and usually most users don't or can't imagine how hard it can be. But indeed, ever since Global Scenery was introduced (late in the XP8 run), Laminar (and since XP10 me) tried to somehow solve this issu (otherwise you wouldn't have this differentiation in XP10 ... but you can clearly see, that there is some degree of density modeling).

 

Simply put: there is no unified, reliable, hight resolution, easily available urban density data which we can use out of the box (one of the simple reasons is, that this science is extremely subjective and can be interpreted - depending on scientific needs - very differently).

 

At least - in the meantime - most land class source data I use, gives at least a simple differentiation between urbanized / non urbanizes (so, we have a more or less usable information about where cities / toewns / villages are located). But then begins the problem of the density interpretation. For example the US NLCD land class data has a quite usefule additional "heat map" layer, which allows for a quite reasonable approximation of urban densities. In Europe, the CORINE land class data has some similar info ... but is less like a heat map and needs some tuning. Many other regions of the planet do not have such info at all ... there we need to either generate our own "heat map" (outside lower, inside higher density) or try to mix in some other population density data sources (there is a quite interesting one for Africa / Asia / South America). usually my approach is to try to figure out the best way for evely landclass source when generating urban densities (and as I told, this already happened for XP10 .... and now is further improved for XP11 ... depending on available data etc.)

 

But even if we have now this density information, it still has quite some variance over the different regions of the planet and thus, when generating autgen info from it, it can still result in different end results.

 

Add to this, that even though we have this density info, it is still too imprecise to generate skylines (or high buildings) from it. For that we need some additional information ... which is even less trivial to get. With XP10 Laminar used some obstacle dtabases (mostly only available in the US) to get some "high building" heights .... Wich XP11 we try to move to building height information coming from openStreetmap which already has usable building height information in some regions. But tstill, we are fully dependent on the data quality / availability coming from OSM (and still, its by far the best we - or you the users - can get at the moment, even if its inconsistent).

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Thanx Alpilotx, we have now a clear picture on the density matter.

Of course every country has its own peculiarity, not easy to find a common approach after all what does count is the believable view of the residential area and what we see with the new autogen is much more polished and...hence...realistic. 

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Well you can do this already in XP10, it really is no different. I did exactly this for my Czech/Slovakia building sets. 

 

Ah, my bad. I thought it was something new after seeing a YouTube movie that mentioned this. But maybe the only new thing was that XP11 comes with German autogen out of the box. (I am completely new to XP, I haven't even bought it yet but am quite interested in XP11.)

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It looks great, I just hope the performance impact is not equally great. 

 

Anyway german europe is more plausible than american europe. 

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That new autogen is pretty impressive - looks good.

 

 

 


Regarding trees of course in the long distance they are good but at medium/short range the average autogen trees break immersion especially at certain time where shadows make them ugly. In this case I think the best solution would be to have rotating one side BB, the result in FS world is definitely better when flying low or at airport.

 

Gosh no... I absolutely hate rotating BB images in any sim. They always catch my attention and break immersion even worse for me.

 

The trees aren't all that pretty, but I enjoy the ability to have lots and lots of them. I also find that although I've noted that they don't look nice in screenshots, from the moment I take off to the moment I land, I've never ever noticed.

 

I do wish they had a bit higher resolution tree objects to use when building airports though. So long as a builder didn't place hundreds of them, it would be an easy way to have a bit more eye candy around the airport. As well as single coniferous trees that one could place - so many of the airports I've done have been in areas where there's only coniferous trees on the airport grounds.

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I desperately want them to do something about the trees. I've resorted to turning them off in X-Plane 10 after I started using Ortho, because they stick out like a sore thumb. They look like cartoon 2D cutouts and they blend with absolutely nothing. It's a shame.

 

But the autogen looks great, could easily pass for some Danish towns as well, so I think the German style is a good starting point. 

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I desperately want them to do something about the trees. I've resorted to turning them off in X-Plane 10 after I started using Ortho, because they stick out like a sore thumb. They look like cartoon 2D cutouts and they blend with absolutely nothing. It's a shame.

Well, of course its not perfect, but neither are orthos perfect. Because you can almost never guarantee some level of homogeneity in their color representation (without extensive work), you will always have a hard time to perfectly - and consistently - match trees (or other objects) to them. Thats the advantage of landclass based scenery where you use a tuned set of base textures, where its much easier to match objects / trees to them.

 

Of course, both sides (ortho or generic textures) have their advantages or disadvantages ... you just need to be aware of them when deciding to use one or the other.

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This looks amazing and an interesting and informative tread too.

But again saying: Great looking autogen buildings. WOW!

If this high quality becomes standard in X-Plane 11 and with some more various buildings hopefully being added over time in the future, we (flightsimmers) can really consider us happy i think.

:smile:

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I've resorted to turning them off in X-Plane 10 after I started using Ortho, because they stick out like a sore thumb. They look like cartoon 2D cutouts and they blend with absolutely nothing. It's a shame.

 

I agree with this, the problem with using orthos is that getting a correct colour balance is very difficult. I've tried quite hard in my latest Ortho4XP tiles to try and colour balance the orthos so the greens blend with the vegetation used, it's a real pain and hard work, e.g.

 

Done Nicely

image.jpg

 

..and not so much

image.jpg

 

I think the advantage of having an ORBX type approach to the scenery is that you don't have blending issues. You can design your landclass tiles with textures and objects nicely colour-balanced to match. If you are using Ortho4XP and want to blend them, you will need at a mininum to adjust the saturation and contrast for each tile you do.

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