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Tom Allensworth

What do you think of the Livery on the A380?

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Not quite as catchy as Boeing's Dreamliner series, but pretty cool nonetheless.Colours are close as well.What do you all think?

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I don't, I watched it live on the German feed.I should have snapped a screenshot.

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What is more interesting is the approach to the problem. Boeing have elected for a long range 250 seater which can go point to point while Airbus have elected for a 550 plus seater which can only go hub to hub with interconnecting flights to final destination.These Giant carriers of the sky worry me especially since 9/11 as transporting that volume of people is bound to lead to long check in times and long loading times.Such an aircraft would be a major taget by terrorists as a disaster to such a volume people carrier would be terrible.On top of all that the airports will have to be modified as will the terminals to take such huge aircraft and that also brings into question suitable alternatives for such big Birds!Peter

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Peter, actually this is totally off topic, I wasn't asking what you thought of the aircraft itself, but rather what you thought of the paintjob.

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Actually, it looks very conservative, it uses vaguely the Airbus logo and doesn't add a lot to it apart from the colors. Just my opinion,Francois

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Kind of like, please arrive at the airport 2 days prior to check-in. ;-)I still think it will be like living with someone in the next apartment above you. Quiet down you 300 people up there. :-)Oh and I like the Tail, but the rest is boring. I think the last sentence brings it home the best about having to modify airports and such. Is the European Conglomerate going to pay for those too?.JOIN The AVSIM RTW RACE FLIGHT TEAM****************Grab My FREEWARE Cessna 172 Voice recognition Profile here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

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Carioca,Thanks for posting the pic. I think the livery looks great--pity Airbus thought of it before some airline :)The A380 really is an exciting project. This is a worldwide project folks--if it succeeds, it's going to employ a lot of people from everywhere. One firm near my home in Phoenix supplies parts for both Boeing and Airbus--I'd like to think for the seatbelts, but the article was about a year back and I can't remember all the details.Can't wait to see how the 7e7 progresses too. Seeing new aircraft getting presented for the first time is exciting to any big aviation buff. I still remember how excited I was when the 747 was rolled out in the 60's. They were even giving away crude 747 models in cereal. Doubt my daughter will see an A380 model in hers :)-John

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I've spoken with luggage handlers at Schiphol who clearly state the inabillity to get an aircraft that large loaded and unloaded in anything approaching a reasonable time.Unless a direct conveyor belt system from automated container loading systems under the airport (which don't exist, most loading is manual) to the aircraft can be constructed the amount of luggage is just too great, adding quite some time to the turnaround cycle.Airbus claims how fuel efficient it is and it may be (but with the weight problems that could turn out to be empty promises) but if the aircraft spends hours extra on the ground in between flights the money saved on fuel quickly evaporates in parking fees and lost revenue.Additionally ever more airlines are starting to abandon the hub and spoke system as passengers more and more elect point to point service (which is one reason lowcost carriers who do this effectively already are so successful). Unless you have a market to fly 550+ passengers point to point without a large feeder system you're not going to be economically successful with the A380 if that trend continues.Some people have wondered about the 45 aircraft order for Emirates (which is a third of the total on order...) but I think they may plan to use them to ferry all those foreign workers from Pakistan and other Asian countries home and back to work that now require more flights. No hub and spoke there, at least not on the Emirates end, and no real competition on the routes either.

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>I've spoken with luggage handlers at Schiphol who clearly state the >inabillity to get an aircraft that large loaded and unloaded in >anything approaching a reasonable time.That's just a typical. Before they have even seen the aircraft they have decided that it is impossible. I guess it must be real efficient to have to load up two Boeings instead of one big Airbus, occupying more parking space, more runway time, more ATC resources, making the airspace more congested and releasing twice the noise to keep the neighbors happy.>Additionally ever more airlines are starting to abandon the>hub and spoke system as passengers more and more elect point>to point service (which is one reason lowcost carriers who do>this effectively already are so successful).So how come all the megahubs are seeing increased traffic numbers every year and are all expanding.>Unless you have a>market to fly 550+ passengers point to point without a large>feeder system you're not going to be economically successful>with the A380 if that trend continues.Alliances took care of the problem years ago. What's the big principal difference between a 747 with 450 passengers and an Airbus A380 with 550?-

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Speaking of Luggage,I still think Aircraft this size i would not enjoy flying. I don't like flying on 747's either.There is very little compassion for someone once they exit a 747. You have 500 people going through 1 or 2 baggage claims trying to find 1000 pieces of luggage.Now picture 800 People with TODAY's Infrastructure, and close to 1600 Pieces of luggage. (Kind of takes away the wow factor, imho)I still don't think many airlines are going to want to build the type of infrastructure required of such a monstrosity. Now, if the European Conglomerate builds all of this instead of requiring the Airports and cities and airlines to build it, then maybe it has a chance. But I doubt they will.IMHO, this will be a Niche aircraft, with Cargo and the type of flights Jeroen spoke of.Once people fly it once, and stand in line for two hours or so trying to find their carry-on that would not fit because the overhead bins were full, and was stowed below, the wow factor will be gone, and mostly you will hear the complaints.UNLESS - The Airlines assign a baggage claim scan system or something that a passenger can scan their luggage claim ticket after departing the aircraft to tell them what claim area it is in. I simply cannot see them using the same old baggage claims as limited as they are right now. Today its already a hassle, now consider this monstrosity.Regards,Joe JOIN The AVSIM RTW RACE FLIGHT TEAM****************Grab My FREEWARE Cessna 172 Voice recognition Profile here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

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Joe,I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks of the discomfort large aircraft like the A380 and 747 cause in terms of the sheer mass of people traveling on the aircraft.There've been really cool pictures showing the A380 with lounges, mini "suites", bars, and other places to "stretch" our world weary legs. But face the truth, most airlines will maximize passenger capacity and they will come somewhere within the 600-700 passenger range.Those of us who remember the 747's introduction recall the same type of advance press--the "glory" shots of lounges and open space, and reality has proven anything but what was showed off to the public 40 years ago. It's a mass human hauler. Wonderful technology, but if airlines could cram 800 pax in a 747, they likely would.My last few transatlantic hops have been on 767 and I really enjoyed them, especially when loading and clearing customs. I think the 7e7 and A350, especially if both have the performance forecast, will probably become the aircraft of choice for all but the longest of flights.-John

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OyvindCorrect me if I am wroung but 550 is the starting point while they go into operation.That will be increased to 800? laterPeter

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JohnWhen bars and restaurants are shown in these massive people carriers I somehow keep thinking A380 Titanic.I think you will find that 550 is a public diplomacy starting point as the aircraft is designed to carry 800.Should anything ever happen either through terrorism or some huge mistake the resulting loss of life would be horrific.Anyone know what the wake turbulence seperations would be on this Bird?Peter

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Oh, about 40 miles.... :)Back a long time ago, I flew in one of the first A310's (or maybe it was a 320, I don't remember). It was a brand new, sparkling bird, and I remember having trepidations about it. You know, infant mortality and all that engineering lingo. When we took off there were two distinct things I remember; the a/c felt like it had square wheels, and the longitudinal stability of the fuselage was so elastic that I could actually see the physical displacement from port to starboard along the length of the fuselage (and I wasn't even in the last seat in economy... I can only imagine what that person saw). The perception of square wheels came from the noise and vibration in the cabin. For a new aircraft, it was amazingly "loose". That, combined with the longitudinal "sway" caused this rather experienced passenger shudder. In every Airbus that I have subsequently flown in, I have the same impression, including a roundtrip to Cairo from Frankfurt in a Lufthansa 340 last September.Now the 380.... Until the combined fleet of flying aircraft reaches a minimum of 5 million hours total operating time, I am staying the heck off this aircraft. Bars, pools, shops, beds, big fat discounts, or whatever, will not induce me. I have been too up-close and personal with metal fatigue, strutural stresses, and that infant mortality thing I mentioned, to want to jump on this a/c anytime soon.

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yes, the 550 seater is with the entire upper deck for first class as well as a good portion of the lower deck.If a more realistic cabin is chosen with the upper deck in 2-3-2 configuration businessclass seats you're already well over 600 seats.Scrap the first class segment on the lower deck and replace that with economy and you're at 700 or so.

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>>I've spoken with luggage handlers at Schiphol who clearly>state the >inabillity to get an aircraft that large loaded and>unloaded in >anything approaching a reasonable time.>>That's just a typical. Before they have even seen the aircraft>they have decided that it is impossible. I guess it must be>real efficient to have to load up two Boeings instead of one>big Airbus, occupying more parking space, more runway time,>more ATC resources, making the airspace more congested and>releasing twice the noise to keep the neighbors happy.>They'd have to handle that A380 AND a 747, not one A380 OR 2 747s...Those people know what they're dealing with, they know the numbers.Even if the aircraft can be loaded and offloaded quickly, the systems to get the baggage and passengers to and from the aircraft just aren't capable of handling that amount of people and baggage in a decent amount of time.>>Additionally ever more airlines are starting to abandon the>>hub and spoke system as passengers more and more elect point>>to point service (which is one reason lowcost carriers who>do>>this effectively already are so successful).>>So how come all the megahubs are seeing increased traffic>numbers every year and are all expanding.>for the simple reasons that airtravel as a whole is increasing. The hubs are however growing at a far slower pace than the smaller destinations proving that an ever larger percentage of people chooses those.Connecting flights through hubs are increasing even slower, so more and more people use hubs as their final destination rather than a transfer station.>>Unless you have a>>market to fly 550+ passengers point to point without a large>>feeder system you're not going to be economically successful>>with the A380 if that trend continues.>>Alliances took care of the problem years ago. What's the big>principal difference between a 747 with 450 passengers and an>Airbus A380 with 550?>You're still thinking about hub-spoke... The 550 seater is just the beginning. Before long there will be 700 and 800 seaters which is the real capacity of the aircraft.The 747 was originally marketed as just a few more seats than the 707 as well, but a lot more space. Those couches and lounges disappeared in very short order and the 747s were equipped with the same style cabins as those 707s yielding a LOT more seats.The same will happen with the A380 as well.

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I'm with you, as I have no desire to fly on one of these Monstrosities.I think some of this European Conglomerates planes make funny noises anyway. And I can't be the only one that thinks that either. When I schedule flights, I stay away from all of them to be honest. It's been about 6 years or so since I've been on on of their planes.I just think Niche and cargo will be the focus on this aircraft.JoeJOIN The AVSIM RTW RACE FLIGHT TEAM****************Grab My FREEWARE Cessna 172 Voice recognition Profile here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

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Well, it's not like the European Conglomerate and its Government Cohorts would force or threaten people to buy these Monstrosities........Oh wait.....What's this??????Could it be......No, It couldn't be........Well, I guess this is one way to ensure a market for this thing. ;-)READ THIS:"Tsunami-hit Thais told: Buy six planes or face EU tariffs "From:http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/internatio...cfm?id=66782005Excerpt:"TSUNAMI-struck Thailand has been told by the European Commission that it must buy six A380 Airbus aircraft if it wants to escape the tariffs against its fishing industry.While millions of Europeans are sending aid to Thailand to help its recovery, trade authorities in Brussels are demanding that Thai Airlines, its national carrier, pays

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TomNow you know the real reason you wont be jumping on this aircraft soon is that you know you will end up No 799 in the line 3 blocks away.It bad enough on Easy Jet. Somehow I always end up at the back shuffling my case forward with my foot every 5 minutes one space.Even if there are two lines. The one I am on always moves slower.Change lines deviously and my old line speeds up and the new one grinds to a halt :-(Then when on board! " ladies and gentleman there will be a short delay as we retrieve a Mrs Blewetts luggage who cannot be accounted for. We shouldnt be delayed by more than an hour ".Then lastly we will probably be taken out of the sky by some errant C150 lost on a circle to land approach onto a different runway :-(Peter

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Thanks Joe for that. I am absolutely speachless; which doesn't happen too often.

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No need Tom, we in the French European colonies are well aware of the way the French government markets their aircraft...Thailand isn't the only one. Many airlines have been given to understand in no uncertain terms that unless they buy Airbus they will see those landing rights at French airports (especially CDG) when hell freezes over.

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Well, that speaks volumes now, does it not? But come on, don't be surprised... It's not the first time it happens. Airbus has pretty questionable business tactics when it comes to sales, independently of their performance (let's not go there).Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)

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