BVI Mode and staying airborne

[Orinks 3]

3 hours ago, FS++ said:

Well, at least you tried 

I think, you're putting yourself under too much stress.

A 737 departure from a major hub with extreme traffic can be very taxing.

FO did set the initial ATC altitude. But when yoiu commanded "Altitude hold", it reverted to 100 (current airport altitude). That's why you ended up decending right after takeoff.

Fuel pumps on an airliner aren't operated like the booster pumps on light aircraft which you only switch on during critical phases (startup, takeoff or landing). On a 737 they should always be ON, unless there is no fuel in the tank.

You need to know the flaps settings for 737 by heart.

Our FO won't dial 150 knots when Flaps are retracted.

This is how the professionals do it on a 737

Get initial speed on approach around 210 or 220 knots, then extend them incrementally.

You: Set flaps 1

Fo: Flaps 1 selected

You: Set speed 190

Fo: Speed set

At 190 or above

You: Flaps 5

Fo: Flaps 5 set

You: Set speed 170

You could eventually set flaps to 10 (if you need to slow down to 160 due to ATC) without extending the gear. But the default FSX plane has a bug and if you do, you get the gear alarm. Therefore, stay at Flaps 5 until you're ready to extend the gear

You: Gear down

Fo: gear coming down.

You: Flaps 15

Fo: Flaps 15 set

The command: Flaps 25, 30 or 40 at your convenience.

Whenever you command a flaps detent that is 2 notches farther from the current one, Fo will treat it as unusual and will want confirmation first.

For example, you're at Flaps 5 and say "full flaps". But once you agree, he will set the flaps as you wish.

Never fly the 737 below 210 knots with no flaps, unless you're coming on long final for a high speed flap-less landing (with no turn allowed). And you'd typically need around 170 knots to keep it from stalling.

The glitch about KJK (missing Foxtrot) is the direct result of recent tweaks made to accommodate PF3 captions. It was changed from "Foxtrot" to "Fox-trot" causing FO to miss the audio on that particular statement.

 

 

Thanks for the flaps settings, that's good to know. Hopefully next time I try PF3 won't just stop working.

 

Is there a current command to get airport/runway elevation information? Sometimes PF3 likes to descend to a final approach altitude that's higher than the local and Glideslope. I guess the data is subject to change if I were to get Navigraph FS data, but the resources that pilots use to get such information outside of the simulator isn't very accessible, such as airport charts. As far as I know, I don't know of any resources that presents this info in a textual format.

 

[Tyler K 0]

Have you ever looked at the updates produced by http://www.aero.sors.fr? There are several different things up there, such as updated navaids, runway data, and so forth, as well as an updated magnetic variation table. The navaids and runway data are updated with each AIRAC cycle.

[ke7zum 0]

Hello guys. I don't have MCE as of yet, thinking about it but I do have some questions. Please bare with me. 

1. In the demo mode is the blind pilots mode included? if so how would I get to it. 
2. I use NVDA as my screen reader. How complicated is this to set up? 
3. Is there a manual I can read somewhere to know the voice commands? my laptop has a full keyboard which helps. I did not scan through the whole 32 posts as of yet, just about maybe 5 of them so please please bare with me. 

Over all from what I saw from orinks's video I am very impressed at what you guys have done. I'd like to commend you, and when this project succeeds I will write a letter of recommendatiaon to nominate you guys for the Jacob baloten award, you guys deserve it.

[FS++ 708]

10 hours ago, ke7zum said:

Hello guys. I don't have MCE as of yet, thinking about it but I do have some questions. Please bare with me. 

1. In the demo mode is the blind pilots mode included? if so how would I get to it. 
2. I use NVDA as my screen reader. How complicated is this to set up? 
3. Is there a manual I can read somewhere to know the voice commands? my laptop has a full keyboard which helps. I did not scan through the whole 32 posts as of yet, just about maybe 5 of them so please please bare with me. 

Over all from what I saw from orinks's video I am very impressed at what you guys have done. I'd like to commend you, and when this project succeeds I will write a letter of recommendatiaon to nominate you guys for the Jacob baloten award, you guys deserve it.

Thanks for the recommendation.

MCE is built for extreme performance. Instead of dropping tons of Windows controls on the UI, there is just 1 window and all the buttons and tabs are an illusion (simulated). Your screen reader won't pick-up those buttons. For this reason, we've had to build a screen reader for BVI pilots.

There is one exception. We use a standard Windows listbox to hold the flows list because it proved too hard to come up with a better alternative..

There are areas in the UI not covered by the reader yet. You'll need to enlist the help of a sighted person for now. It's related to the Voxscript feature where you can create your own custom speech commands and get the FO to perform a chain of actions in the sequence and pace you dictate. Kind of, when I say this, do this and that, wait X seconds, then do that other bit, and then notify me.

I guess Orinks is the best person to give you a BVI perspective on how to use MCE.

[ke7zum 0]

Thanks so much. I can't wait to try this out  and give my feedback. thanks for the prompt reply. I will be installing  it probably on Thursday after work. are there user manuals I can read over the next few days before installing the product? I'm very excited to try this out. Again thanks so much you guys, maybe I'll put up my feedback in a video as soon as I get familiar with the interface, or I'll do one of my first impressions which should be fun as well. Hehahaha.

Take care all and I'll keep an eye on this thread for any tips, stuff I'll try etc. hopefully I can stay air born, and hopefully pf3 once I get that set up won't brake.

By the way if you ever need any beta testers feel free to have your devs contact us privately. I'm sure most of us would love to do this to make the BVI mode or what ever the mode will be called  better.

[zkline 1]

I think it's worth noting that despite the controls not being standard, most Windows screen readers I've tried still recognize them and allow them to be clicked. They aren't quite ideal, as it's hard to tell what state some of the toggles are in without narrator, but it's certainly not impossible to use them on our own. I think folks shouldn't be discouraged by the apparent need to get sighted assistance, if you use the "virtual mouse," feature of your readers things will generally work well.

[ke7zum 0]

That's true.  I wonder if narrator might work better to do the MCE install or navigate the interface? . I don't know how to use its virtual mouse, but I'm sure I can figure it out. I use nvda myself. If the developers want to test with nvda they can as well. I have not installed it as I'm at work right now, but in two days I can.

[ke7zum 0]

Hello to all. Following is my feedback regarding MCE. Keep in mind this is even before I get off the ground, which I could not do last night due to an error on my part.

    1. The end user needs to use the mouse to navigate the wizard. This is fine for those of us with advanced knowledge of nvda and other screen readers. However for a beginner of nvda or any other screenreader, it might be intimidating. One suggestion might be to have elements that can be tabbed between. This, is to my knowledge, a standard wizard interface. Tabbing between the next and pref buttons would make it much easier to navigate and set up MCE.
    2. When starting the program and the windows speech bar is opened instructions would be nice to have to close the speech bar. This is through no fault of the MCE crew, but this is only a suggestion  for those of us that don't know how to close the speech bar.

I did a youtube video detailing all of this on youtube  at 
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=vkaLBVsekfg

I am very impressed so far that the installer was accessible. I don't see that too often in terms of setting stuff up for FSX. My offer still stands, if you are in need of any beta tester in the future feel free to contact one of us. We would be more than happy to give ideas for design of VBI mode, or what ever it will be called in the future.

Thanks to the dev team for your hard work.

[Orinks 3]

On 6/27/2017 at 5:45 AM, FS++ said:

Thanks for the recommendation.

MCE is built for extreme performance. Instead of dropping tons of Windows controls on the UI, there is just 1 window and all the buttons and tabs are an illusion (simulated). Your screen reader won't pick-up those buttons. For this reason, we've had to build a screen reader for BVI pilots.

There is one exception. We use a standard Windows listbox to hold the flows list because it proved too hard to come up with a better alternative..

There are areas in the UI not covered by the reader yet. You'll need to enlist the help of a sighted person for now. It's related to the Voxscript feature where you can create your own custom speech commands and get the FO to perform a chain of actions in the sequence and pace you dictate. Kind of, when I say this, do this and that, wait X seconds, then do that other bit, and then notify me.

I guess Orinks is the best person to give you a BVI perspective on how to use MCE.

Hi FS++ and all,

Despite the two options I have enabled in my settings for the FO to always dial everything, including radio frequencies, does this work on the ground?

The reason I ask is the "going to" command doesn't work all the time. For example, I wait a bit after the FO gives clearance readback for everything to be dialed in, and I usually can say going to ground, since if PF3 worked right MCE should store this frequency when PF3 sent the caption to contact ground.

To make it easier for everyone, not just BVI pilots, it would be great if MCE could get the frequencies for the entire plan, as generated and saved in pf3_display\pf3_freqs.dat.

This is the file I look at and keep open when tuning to ATIS, clearance and ground. However, if I could just say "going to ATIS" and "going to clearance", if PF3 interface is active, it can take a look at this file and no one need look at the PF3 frequency data again.

I realize there is not a built-in command for going to these frequencies, but each departure, destination and ARTCC Center is different, so really can't alias that.

HTH, just a suggestion that I hope may make MCE better for everyone, but especially better for us because that's one less step to do after PF3 is connected to the simulator.

 

[FS++ 708]

14 hours ago, ke7zum said:

Hello to all. Following is my feedback regarding MCE. Keep in mind this is even before I get off the ground, which I could not do last night due to an error on my part.

    1. The end user needs to use the mouse to navigate the wizard. This is fine for those of us with advanced knowledge of nvda and other screen readers. However for a beginner of nvda or any other screenreader, it might be intimidating. One suggestion might be to have elements that can be tabbed between. This, is to my knowledge, a standard wizard interface. Tabbing between the next and pref buttons would make it much easier to navigate and set up MCE.
    2. When starting the program and the windows speech bar is opened instructions would be nice to have to close the speech bar. This is through no fault of the MCE crew, but this is only a suggestion  for those of us that don't know how to close the speech bar.

I did a youtube video detailing all of this on youtube  at 
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=vkaLBVsekfg

I am very impressed so far that the installer was accessible. I don't see that too often in terms of setting stuff up for FSX. My offer still stands, if you are in need of any beta tester in the future feel free to contact one of us. We would be more than happy to give ideas for design of VBI mode, or what ever it will be called in the future.

Thanks to the dev team for your hard work.

Thank you for your offer.

I suggest people just keep posting what they would like to see implemented and we'll take that into consideration. Now, bear in mind, MCE is payware software, and the vast majority of our user base has other wishes too. 

We try to accommodate both as much as possible, and resources are assigned on most used to least used feature basis.

To give you some perspective, I don't think there are more than a dozen BVI users (including 3 beta testers), And MCE has been around for a very long time.

There is nothing worse than spending a few weeks on a feature that people don't even realize is there, nor care for that matter.

Watching Orinks video, allowed us to see what made him struggle, and required changes became obvious.

The UI will be fully BVI ready by the end of July. Up to now, only the main tabs were. After the change, you should be able to venture into the Voxscript feature which no other similar add-on on the market has. It gives you free speech. Talk to any crew member on your terms, using any language. The FO (and eventually pursers) will become true companions.

Not sure why, somehow couldn't access your video. Can you double check the link?

Thanks

 

 

[FS++ 708]

7 hours ago, Orinks said:

Hi FS++ and all,

Despite the two options I have enabled in my settings for the FO to always dial everything, including radio frequencies, does this work on the ground?

The reason I ask is the "going to" command doesn't work all the time. For example, I wait a bit after the FO gives clearance readback for everything to be dialed in, and I usually can say going to ground, since if PF3 worked right MCE should store this frequency when PF3 sent the caption to contact ground.

To make it easier for everyone, not just BVI pilots, it would be great if MCE could get the frequencies for the entire plan, as generated and saved in pf3_display\pf3_freqs.dat.

This is the file I look at and keep open when tuning to ATIS, clearance and ground. However, if I could just say "going to ATIS" and "going to clearance", if PF3 interface is active, it can take a look at this file and no one need look at the PF3 frequency data again.

I realize there is not a built-in command for going to these frequencies, but each departure, destination and ARTCC Center is different, so really can't alias that.

HTH, just a suggestion that I hope may make MCE better for everyone, but especially better for us because that's one less step to do after PF3 is connected to the simulator.

 

On ground, FO will always dial everything. 

The option overrides the behaviour when airborne.

In normal operation the pilot flying, unless doing so manually, in which case FO assists him, he is expected to handle auto-pilot input and FO just sticks to COMMS.

You need V2.7.1.7 for the options to be active and they must be within [ATC] section in config file.

[ATC]

FoAlwaysDialsVHF=1

FoAlwaysDialsAfs=1

By tomorrow, will have a new patch where you can hear Fo notify you when he dials ATC auto-pilot related instructions.

Are you sure about "pf3_freqs.dat"? Couldn't find it. Are you on older PFE or current PF3?

 

 

[RALF9636 1,956]

11 hours ago, Orinks said:

To make it easier for everyone, not just BVI pilots, it would be great if MCE could get the frequencies for the entire plan, as generated and saved in pf3_display\pf3_freqs.dat.

This is the file I look at and keep open when tuning to ATIS, clearance and ground. However, if I could just say "going to ATIS" and "going to clearance", if PF3 interface is active, it can take a look at this file and no one need look at the PF3 frequency data again.

 

 

That sounds like a good idea and I would also appreciate that very much.

 

Quote

Are you sure about "pf3_freqs.dat"? Couldn't find it. Are you on older PFE or current PF3?

 

It is in the main sim folder: e.g.

...\Prepar3D\PF3_display\PF3_freqs.dat

and it looks like this:

 

[Updated]
Timestamp=201706282213
[Dept]
ATIS=123.77
Clearance=121.77
Ground=121.9
Tower=118.3
Departure=123.6
Unicom=0
Multicom=0
FSS=122.2
[Dest]
ATIS=122.95
Clearance=122.12
Ground=121.6
Tower=119.4
Approach=123.5
Unicom=0
Multicom=0
FSS=118.52
[ControlCentres]
CC0=Center/Control Information
CC1=120.05 - DUSSELDORF RADAR
CC5=135.45 - HANNOVER RADAR
CC6=126.00 - BERLIN RADAR
CC18=127.90 - CONTROL
CC26=129.30 - VIENNA RADAR
LC=26
[Config]
Left=25245
Top=8235

 

 

[Orinks 3]

3 hours ago, FS++ said:

On ground, FO will always dial everything. 

The option overrides the behaviour when airborne.

In normal operation the pilot flying, unless doing so manually, in which case FO assists him, he is expected to handle auto-pilot input and FO just sticks to COMMS.

You need V2.7.1.7 for the options to be active and they must be within [ATC] section in config file.

[ATC]

FoAlwaysDialsVHF=1

FoAlwaysDialsAfs=1

By tomorrow, will have a new patch where you can hear Fo notify you when he dials ATC auto-pilot related instructions.

Are you sure about "pf3_freqs.dat"? Couldn't find it. Are you on older PFE or current PF3?

 

 

Hi FS++,

 

It is actually not in the PF3 folder, but PF3 creates a pf3_display folder in the route of FSX--in my case it's the FSX Steam edition root folder.

The dat file is in that folder.

[Orinks 3]

5 hours ago, FS++ said:

Thank you for your offer.

I suggest people just keep posting what they would like to see implemented and we'll take that into consideration. Now, bear in mind, MCE is payware software, and the vast majority of our user base has other wishes too. 

We try to accommodate both as much as possible, and resources are assigned on most used to least used feature basis.

To give you some perspective, I don't think there are more than a dozen BVI users (including 3 beta testers), And MCE has been around for a very long time.

There is nothing worse than spending a few weeks on a feature that people don't even realize is there, nor care for that matter.

Watching Orinks video, allowed us to see what made him struggle, and required changes became obvious.

The UI will be fully BVI ready by the end of July. Up to now, only the main tabs were. After the change, you should be able to venture into the Voxscript feature which no other similar add-on on the market has. It gives you free speech. Talk to any crew member on your terms, using any language. The FO (and eventually pursers) will become true companions.

Not sure why, somehow couldn't access your video. Can you double check the link?

Thanks

 

 

I'm glad to know that the BVI mode should be fully ready by July.

I suppose this doesn't include possible assisted landing features that Ben talked about in an email though, but this is fine. About that, though, since in that video I was coming in just to see if I could actually land anywhere, not on a runway. For some reason, PF3 broke to the point of not receiving any traffic or anything. It wasn't hung or anything, just seems odd that there was absolutely no traffic in that part of where I was headed.

If I were landing on a runway, one thing that isn't available yet, as far as I know, is being able to look up a runway's ILS frequency and tel MCE what it is to dial it in so that we can tell MCE to go to approach mode. PF3 could do it on mode 1+, but I like MCE's realism with PF3 right now, despite the FO at times speaking before the controller is done.

[FS++ 708]

3 hours ago, Orinks said:

I'm glad to know that the BVI mode should be fully ready by July.

I suppose this doesn't include possible assisted landing features that Ben talked about in an email though, but this is fine. About that, though, since in that video I was coming in just to see if I could actually land anywhere, not on a runway. For some reason, PF3 broke to the point of not receiving any traffic or anything. It wasn't hung or anything, just seems odd that there was absolutely no traffic in that part of where I was headed.

If I were landing on a runway, one thing that isn't available yet, as far as I know, is being able to look up a runway's ILS frequency and tel MCE what it is to dial it in so that we can tell MCE to go to approach mode. PF3 could do it on mode 1+, but I like MCE's realism with PF3 right now, despite the FO at times speaking before the controller is done.

Yes, assistance with landing will be in at some point, once we understand what you guys expect to happen. It could mean different things for different people.

Download this patch (Fo will announce when he sets VHF Freq, ALT, HDG and Transponder, when instructed by PF3, with MCE Narrator enabled).

Assuming you replaced both files, you can already hear what button does what in the main "Voxscript overview" panel.