10 minutes ago, b1bmsgt said:

So do I. Works great! I fly exclusively in the U.S., so I don't have to put up with the European phraseology, which I personally don't like...

 

"Climb altitude 4000..." Well, no kidding it's an altitude. What else would it be. Aren't we smart enough to understand "Climb and maintan 4000"  as an altitude instruction? Just seems like another dumbing down to me. There's too much of that happening in the world.

The Transition Altitude in Europe varies considerably from 3000ft in the Netherlands to 6000ft in the UK and many different ones across the continent.

Including the word 'altitude' reminds the pilot he should remain on QNH until cleared to a Flight Level. I lost count of the number of posts in the RC forum from people who claimed they were at the correct altitude and were annoyed at getting busted but had forgotten / not understood the difference between an altitude and a flight level.

11 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The Transition Altitude in Europe varies considerably from 3000ft in the Netherlands to 6000ft in the UK and many different ones across the continent.

Including the word 'altitude' reminds the pilot he should remain on QNH until cleared to a Flight Level. I lost count of the number of posts in the RC forum from people who claimed they were at the correct altitude and were annoyed at getting busted but had forgotten / not understood the difference between an altitude and a flight level.

Point taken, Ray.

But... (There's always a but, isn't there...)

 

Climb and maintain 4000

Climb and maintain Flight Level 5 or whatever

 

Again, pretty self explanatory.

 

All in the name of safety, I guess, which is always good.

 

(Just an old former pilot ranting about new fangled stuff...)

 

Russ

7 hours ago, b1bmsgt said:

Point taken, Ray.

But... (There's always a but, isn't there...)

 

Climb and maintain 4000

Climb and maintain Flight Level 5 or whatever

Again, pretty self explanatory.

All in the name of safety, I guess, which is always good.

(Just an old former pilot ranting about new fangled stuff...)

Russ

The choice of enunciation was decided amongst a group including currently (then) active Air Traffic Controllers (US and UK).

Too many years have passed to recall the discussion but the inclusion of 'altitude' or 'flight level' was probably decided as a good idea especially as many customers might be using a ATC program for the first time.

You're a former pilot so the inclusion of those words is obviously unnecessary and I can understand your frustration. But including them did allow for a simple rule to be remembered for the masses. Altitude = QNH, Flight Level = 29.92 / 1013.2.

On 6/6/2017 at 9:20 AM, Bobsk8 said:

For ATC , if you want something that is pretty realistic, Try PF3, A free demo is available. 

ive heard many great things, but havent seen that it is compatible with v4, can you confirm or deny this?

4 hours ago, tman41291 said:

ive heard many great things, but havent seen that it is compatible with v4, can you confirm or deny this?

Yes. PF3 works fine with P3D v4. Make sure you have updated FSUIPC 5 installed.

13 hours ago, tman41291 said:

ive heard many great things, but havent seen that it is compatible with v4, can you confirm or deny this?

From another topic: "PF3 - Of all the ATC add-ons, this one requires probably the most intricate setup of the flightplan. You have to key in all the information including end of a SID and start of a STAR along with all altitude restrictions. The effort is significant especially if you want to account for different runways based on weather (You need to key in all the SID and STAR data for all the runways along with TAs and FAFs for the airport)." Sounds to me that you are better off doing your own live ATC...  ProATC does everything for you: it is the closest thing to having real ATC when it comes to how much effort you have to put into it. You tell it your departure and destination and that's it. 

19 hours ago, fltent1184 said:

Yes. PF3 works fine with P3D v4. Make sure you have updated FSUIPC 5 installed.

Hmm. Not sure if I want FSUIPC again, I have 4 currently but obviously doesn’t work in v4. Didn’t find much use for it..unless they have an FSUIPC free version as well which I know some of that had use before. I may be misinformed or didn’t know much of it’s use to really give input. 

9 hours ago, J van E said:

From another topic: "PF3 - Of all the ATC add-ons, this one requires probably the most intricate setup of the flightplan. You have to key in all the information including end of a SID and start of a STAR along with all altitude restrictions. The effort is significant especially if you want to account for different runways based on weather (You need to key in all the SID and STAR data for all the runways along with TAs and FAFs for the airport)." Sounds to me that you are better off doing your own live ATC...  ProATC does everything for you: it is the closest thing to having real ATC when it comes to how much effort you have to put into it. You tell it your departure and destination and that's it. 

I was strongly considering PF3 mainly for the integration it has with multi crew experience app. So pro-atc does all the SID/STAR work as well as the “weather work” lol? Like the original poster as well, I want it to work with AI namely UTLive. I really appreciate your response tho!