40$ is not 140$... About Carenado

[John_Cillis 2,406]

17 minutes ago, signmanbob said:

Hello Alan,

I agree with you here.  I do buy a lot of Carenado and Alabeo products because, for me, most of them fly ~ok~ and they look absolutely awesome.

I only wish that they would put the same effort into the systems and flight dynamics that they put into the visuals, and sell them for twice as much.

Carenado and Alabeo are textual artists, and masters at that.

I would love to see them get tied up with Flightsimware for the systems and flight dynamics, but that probably would never happen.

 

Bob

With RealAir gone, I wonder who the best flight dynamics payware GA makers are out there.  It's always been one or the other, except for RealAir's Dukes--good visuals, or good flight dynamics.  JustFlight has made some nice aircraft, so has LionheartCreations, but they are not the same visually as the Carenado products.  I am sad I lost my Real Air information, I wanted to port the Duke piston to P3d.  I will have to wait until I salvage the hard drive from my old system. 

John

[Gregg_Seipp 568]

57 minutes ago, Cactus521 said:

With RealAir gone, I wonder who the best flight dynamics payware GA makers are out there.  It's always been one or the other, except for RealAir's Dukes--good visuals, or good flight dynamics.  JustFlight has made some nice aircraft, so has LionheartCreations, but they are not the same visually as the Carenado products.  I am sad I lost my Real Air information, I wanted to port the Duke piston to P3d.  I will have to wait until I salvage the hard drive from my old system. 

John

Maybe you could email Rob Young and see if he can help? 

[John_Cillis 2,406]

1 minute ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

Maybe you could email Rob Young and see if he can help? 

Don't know his email.

[Anxu00 176]

The original post should also include as question:

4. How many of Carenado models you have bought but not installed anywhere?  My answer is 6-8, I can't remember.  Money down the drain for me.

I don't know the real purpose of the original post.  There are many who love the visuals and like new stuffs, and they will buy everything that Carenado has to offer.  Like clothings there are simmers who like a continuous supply of new cheap fashion, and Carenado caters to this market.  

And there is a segment who like study level plane, that are almost a perfect replica of the real thing.  This is the PMDG, A2A crowd.  And they will not touch Carenado.

The third crowd is the middle pack, which does not have the patient or time for PMDG, A2A (after all, who wants to continuously take care of the plane like the real plane owner does, it's rather pointless as after doing all that work, you are still sitting in front of the computer LOL.  Yes there are such people and there is nothing wrong with that, but just not me).  For this middle pack, the expectation is that most of the common stuffs are supposed to work, but not so heavy that it will take the joy out of just jump in and fly.  For this crowd, the Flight1, RealAir, MilViz shop are examples.  This crowd is the one that sometime got stung by Carenado, seduced by their excellent beautiful external and  VC rendering, and wish to themselves that if only Carenado would just finish the avionics, plunked down the money and proceed to community debug the Carenado offerings.  I for one belong to the third crowd, I only use a few planes that are reasonably complex to not bore me, but not ridiculous procedural that I did not feel I ever get off the ground and go somewhere!  I also no longer buy anything from Carenado for P3D.

Enjoy your Carenado for what they are worth, but they don't deserve to be defended either.  As many have said, they never post anything here nor stand behind their products for very long.  There is also something new and sexy to put together.  Next shirt please 

[John_Cillis 2,406]

26 minutes ago, Anxu00 said:

The original post should also include as question:

4. How many of Carenado models you have bought but not installed anywhere?  My answer is 6-8, I can't remember.  Money down the drain for me.

I don't know the real purpose of the original post.  There are many who love the visuals and like new stuffs, and they will buy everything that Carenado has to offer.  Like clothings there are simmers who like a continuous supply of new cheap fashion, and Carenado caters to this market.  

And there is a segment who like study level plane, that are almost a perfect replica of the real thing.  This is the PMDG, A2A crowd.  And they will not touch Carenado.

The third crowd is the middle pack, which does not have the patient or time for PMDG, A2A (after all, who wants to continuously take care of the plane like the real plane owner does, it's rather pointless as after doing all that work, you are still sitting in front of the computer LOL.  Yes there are such people and there is nothing wrong with that, but just not me).  For this middle pack, the expectation is that most of the common stuffs are supposed to work, but not so heavy that it will take the joy out of just jump in and fly.  For this crowd, the Flight1, RealAir, MilViz shop are examples.  This crowd is the one that sometime got stung by Carenado, seduced by their excellent beautiful external and  VC rendering, and wish to themselves that if only Carenado would just finish the avionics, plunked down the money and proceed to community debug the Carenado offerings.  I for one belong to the third crowd, I only use a few planes that are reasonably complex to not bore me, but not ridiculous procedural that I did not feel I ever get off the ground and go somewhere!  I also no longer buy anything from Carenado for P3D.

Enjoy your Carenado for what they are worth, but they don't deserve to be defended either.  As many have said, they never post anything here nor stand behind their products for very long.  There is also something new and sexy to put together.  Next shirt please 

In economics you have a supplier and provider.  If someone wants something a certain way, that will prevail.  They make a product that simmers want, and their customers are happy with it.  I don't want to waste my time looking for the perfect airplane.  If you want one, you should buy a real one.  This is a hobby, and many of us who are older pilots prefer stick and rudder.  In real life I am the same way, I settled as a trike pilot, very basic. It's been several years since I've flown, not sure if I will fly one again, the sim gives me enough time to enjoy flying, plus there is no smell of oil.  If I do fly again it will be a trike vs. fixed wing, an ultralight. There's something about using my body to fly that I enjoy. We have vast areas here in Arizona that are clear for ultralight flying.

John

[Gregg_Seipp 568]

Well, I do have a fair number of Carenado...most aren't installed anymore.  Heck, out of, perhaps 12 or 14, only one...not that all were bad...at least the steam gauge ones.  Some of them, while they were fine, weren't the plane for me.  I'd say about one out of five were worth flying at least several times.  C182 long ago...C210 once I got the flaps flixed.  Two of them, the C337 and Malibu Mirage, were worth every single dime.  I have really nurtured the Mirage, fixing issues with scripts, changed out gauges, adding a sound pack.  Looking to add a weather radar when I can figure it out.  It's a rich man's plane and I treat it that way.  I wonder what my Hobbs reads.  It's a gem in a fairly pricey stack.  Wish they'd fit a GTN750 in it.,,,pretty surprised they didn't when they fit it for P3D4.  I bet the TBM would be a joy with steam gauges, too...special "Steveo" edition.  LOL.  

My rule of thumb that I've found to be true is that, if you can find good information on the airplane...a POH, a flying guide and some youtube vidieos on it, then there's a good chance it will be a good plane worth keeping.  Others, it's just luck. 

So, yeah, their testing is horrible, Bert Pieke has been amazing, their systems stink, but sometimes you find what you're looking for.

[ms2 184]

9 hours ago, Cactus521 said:

A different mix from what I fly.

Good morning Cactus (I'm european)

a different mix because as anybody said in this topic, as "in cheap fashion" we have more choice....

For others: I understand very well that flying big tubes is a pleasure... to follow a lot of procedures and  to be able to drive complexe aircrafts... I have this pleasure too... Find interresting when you make a fly with connected pilot-friends.

But to fly AG is more freedom and eyes pleasures when with addons you change the ground sceneries... (Is fashion too ;-) ,... when alone I fly AG aircrafts... Oooohhh, I forgett a Beech, the duke of real is very well, I like it.

with this "turn around Carenado" of this topic, I have a conclusion, real pilots seam to be more tolerant that hard core simmers. Perhaps because they don't consider a lot the flying model in the simulator. In real flights you have first physical sensations... Unpossible to render except some shaking screen... Is not the matter.

Most pilot (militaries or airliners) communicate me their pleasures with real AG. Just yesterday a f16 pilot-friend follow a route to join EBLG to Bastia Corse in a PA28 in 3 steps for holydays with friends near Solenzara. 

For some sim-one. With a good gns or others gauges addons, or avsim corrections in aircraft.cfg*... that change a lot your cockpits of Alabeo Carenado Aircrafts... A minimum to do + those addons are disponible for the majorty of other addons. 

*Is a pleasure, I have just now DA 42 with a Jim correction (thanks)

[ms2 184]

1 hour ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

their systems stink

Perhaps is little shocking as opinion, please take care.

[ms2 184]

Just make a choice for a symbolic-icon on avsim forum, I like a lot this repaint of a Alabeo B17... done by the avsim member Warbirds, thanks Paul

[ms2 184]

I write B17 but must read D17... ;-))

B for me because this is the Beechcraft Model 17 Staggerwing... And is not the bomber ;-)

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

14 hours ago, ms2 said:

...with this "turn around Carenado" of this topic, I have a conclusion, real pilots seam to be more tolerant than hard core simmers.

I have had the same experience.. real pilots focus on the issues that relate to piloting the aircraft, and less on the exact angle of the windshield surround..

Also, real pilots are familiar with situations where some of the gauges are unreliable and workarounds are used to safely get from A to B.

If you add quality avionics (from Flight1 or RXP) to Carenado aircraft, you end up with very flyable airplanes, that look amazing as well 

Look here for examples:

http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_topics.asp?FID=26&title=screenshot-forum

 

 

[John_Cillis 2,406]

18 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

I have had the same experience.. real pilots focus on the issues that relate to piloting the aircraft, and less on the exact angle of the windshield surround..

Also, real pilots are familiar with situations where some of the gauges are unreliable and workarounds are used to safely get from A to B.

If you add quality avionics (from Flight1 or RXP) to Carenado aircraft, you end up with very flyable airplanes, that look amazing as well 

Look here for examples:

http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_topics.asp?FID=26&title=screenshot-forum

 

 

When I took my flying lessons I learned on aircraft with steam gauges, with one exception was a flight on a Zenair that had a glass cockpit.  I did not like the glass cockpit, hard to see if the sun hit the panel at a certain angle.  In the sim I don't mind the glass cockpit because they are easier to read, love the one in the TBM 850.  All the flight info is right there at one glance.  My flight instructor knew my sim habits well, he kept tickling me to look outside and stop scanning the instruments, to let the plane fly itself thru chop rather than trying to overmanage it.  It changed my sim habits quite a bit, now I fly the sim like I was taught to fly IRL, it makes hand flying a pleasure.

My instructor drilled into me that anyone can fly, but it takes more to be a good pilot.  Managing ATC, navigation, scanning for traffic--that's what makes a good pilot while keeping the aircraft under control.  That's why I like the Carenado aircraft, I don't need systems to manage my flight, just my reflexes and instincts.  Some aircraft are better than others, especially those that have dihedral modeled better that don't drift around the heading.  IRL I did not deem myself good enough to keep flying, I did not have the "social" reflexes to readback my ATC instructions in a prompt manner--my teaching habits got the best of me since I like to explain things.

That's why I switched to ultralight flying for a while, where I was good at handling them in the air and did not have to talk so much.  I did not mind being suspended above the ground, I was not worried about falling out of the trikes, LOL.  Once you are in a trike you understand that they are your wings to support you.  I'm glad my trike made with FSDS 2 works so well in P3dV4.  I chose XML coding for my gauges which carried over to P3d with no issues.  The gauges were the only ones I ever made for a sim, modeled after real UL gauges.  P3d stayed faithful to developers who used XML and Simconnect for their gauges.  The FSX platform gave me what I needed to get the flight dynamics exactly like what I experienced in a real trike, although it took trial and error before I was happy.

John

[Chock 17,769]

33 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

I have had the same experience.. real pilots focus on the issues that relate to piloting the aircraft, and less on the exact angle of the windshield surround..

But ironically that's exactly the problem with Carenado, they actually do concentrate on the looks and not what is required to simulate flying the aeroplane.

38 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

If you add quality avionics (from Flight1 or RXP) to Carenado aircraft, you end up with very flyable airplanes, that look amazing as well 

Whilst that is true, and I've done that plenty of times with ISG and other stuff, and even made one or two gauges and bits and bobs myself to add things like profile radars to 737 NGs before any of the payware ones had that function, but really that should be to enhance things, not to correct poor functionality of a payware product, so it should certainly not be an excuse for any developer to knock out half finished products.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

4 minutes ago, Chock said:

But ironically that's exactly the problem with Carenado, they actually do concentrate on the looks and not what is required to simulate flying the aeroplane.

Whilst that is true, and I've done that plenty of times with ISG and other stuff, and even made one or two gauges and bits and bobs myself to add things like profile radars to 737 NGs before any of the payware ones had that function, but really that should be to enhance things, not to correct poor functionality of a payware product, so it should certainly not be an excuse for any developer to knock out half finished products.

I find my Carenado aircraft more than half finished, although their FMC's are anemic, they are still flyable.  I feel at home in the pilot's seat, all the major instruments do what I need them to do.  I just get bored programming a plane to fly, I'd rather do it myself.  I'll never own heavy iron but I might possibly own a GA aircraft some day, that's why I spend time flying those in the sim.  Carenado's Cessna's feel like the Cessna's I've flown.  They might not be realistic around the edges of the flight envelope, but I was taught to avoid those edges, only to be prepared for them and know what to do if I found myself in a stall.

My first lesson in the Allegro covered stalls, since the Allegro had a sharp stall where you went from looking at sky to looking at ground in an instant, you had to be on your toes to keep from generating too much airspeed.  All other aircraft I flew were much more docile in stall handling, gentle drops, easy recoveries.  Oh how I wish I had kept up my flight instruction, but expenses got the best of me, it was cheaper to fly trikes.

I miss RealAir, they were the best on doing everything right.  Eye candy, instrumentation and flight dynamics were their forte.  I don't understand why they dropped out of business, they deserved our support and delivered a product superior to Carenado, even down to visual detail in their Duke.  They were truly the GA maker to beat, IMHO.

John 

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

This becomes a glass-half-full vs glass-half-empty argument...

I am not offering up any excuses for Carenado, they can clearly do better.

But, what I am saying, is that just like the default airplanes in P3D are not the best,

you can replace them with payware airplanes.

Likewise, as Carenado avionics are not the best, you can replace them with payware avionics 

Up to you to decide if you like that combination or not - I do.