ianstoop

Lineup and Wait and Wait and Wait and Wait

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Hi Dave

Since updating to v2311 I have been experiencing a few problems at KSTS  (I use the ORBX version), particularly when desiring to takeoff from runway 14. I receive taxi instructions from ground to taxi to runway 14 and as i approach the holding point for runway 14 i get handed over to tower as expected. Nonetheless, this is where things get truly interesting. I report that i am ready for departure and tower instructs me to lineup and wait. Alas, that is as far as it goes... I simply dont get takeoff clearance, i just wait and wait and wait... You get the idea (its pretty annoying to say the least). If, while i am lined up and waiting on runway 14 and i report ready for departure from runway 20, i immediately get cleared for takeoff, no problem... Thus, i have concluded that the problem must lie with runway 14, as all the other runways at KSTS appears to function properly.

KSTS was upgraded a few years ago. Basically the two runways were decoupled and both were extended. Runway 14 / 32 was extended almost 1000 feet and 01/19 (as it was then (now 02/20)) was extended 200 feet. The ORBX version of KSTS is unfortunately based on the airport as it existed prior to these upgrades. I have a strange feeling that whatever data P2A uses to determine the starting point / end point of a runway may be based on the airport as it is now, with the extended runways, and not on the airport as it was prior to the upgrades and reflected in the ORBX version. If i open taxiway maintenance and click the runway name button, it shows the runway names in the positions where the they now start (i.e. subsequent to the upgrades).

Anyway, once i started suspecting that this may be the problem i attempted again to get clearance form takeoff on runway 14. this time, when i received the instruction to lineup and wait on 14, i taxied back past the start of the runway, onto the grass and continued going until on the P2A moving map i was about halfway between the runway (as it is in the sim) and the runway name box and finally, i got clearance to takeoff... 

I really hope that you can look into this problem and come up with some form of solution if at all possible. Its been driving me insane. 

Regards,

Ian

 

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This is not the only airport with this problem.  Runway ends are based on ARINC data (Navigraph or NavDataPro) which come from the real world, because approaches, etc. are based on real world data. 

Obviously, updating the scenery would be the best answer to get everything sync'd up.

However, I will look into what might be done to allow takeoff permission to work a little better.

As a workaround, for RW 14, just ask for a midfield departure and you should get clearance without taxiing out into the dirt field.

Dave

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On 10/31/2017 at 3:52 PM, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

This is not the only airport with this problem.  Runway ends are based on ARINC data (Navigraph or NavDataPro) which come from the real world, because approaches, etc. are based on real world data. 

Obviously, updating the scenery would be the best answer to get everything sync'd up.

However, I will look into what might be done to allow takeoff permission to work a little better.

As a workaround, for RW 14, just ask for a midfield departure and you should get clearance without taxiing out into the dirt field.

Dave

Hey Dave I’m starting To experience this. last two flights that I have taken I have been told to line up and wait and nothing ever happened after that I had to take both flights without pilot2ATC.  Last flight I took was last night. KIAH-KMSY I  Departed runway 33R

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Steven,

If the runway is clear and you are lined up and waiting, just remind tower by telling him that you are "ready for departure" again.  Assuming all is clear, you should get takeoff clearance and all will proceed normally after that.

You normally get Line up and Wait when another aircraft has just landed or one is on the runway for some other reason.  As soon as that aircraft clears the runway, you should get takeoff clearance.  If AI Traffic is blocking the runway, for example sitting on the runway opposite end for takeoff, you may have to exit the runway and go back to the Departure Hold point to get the AI Traffic moving so the runway can be clear.

Dave

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On 10/31/2017 at 7:52 PM, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

As a workaround, for RW 14, just ask for a midfield departure and you should get clearance without taxiing out into the dirt field.

Dave, is that possible once you have lined up ready, -- i.e. a request to tower at that time? Otherwise you'd need to know in advance about the problem with this runway.

Also, I am pretty sure that other programs using such runway data get their information on runway, gates and taxiway positions, from the actual installed scenery data -- either doing their own BGL scan (FS-FlightControl) or using MakeRunways (ProATC/X, Radar Contact). I think you do use MakeRunways data, but is that not including the runway data?

Pete

 

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Pete,

Yes, P2A gets taxiway data, including Runway ground position data, from scenery files if you update the information from your scenery.  Otherwise, it uses default scenery.

For airborne navigation, it uses the AIRAC data.  My answer to the question back in October was misleading.

However, there are still many runways, even after update, where what looks like the end of the runway on the Satellite view does not line up with the end of the runway in the data and updating the TaxiMnt data will fix that.  And usually, asking for a midfield takeoff, which ignores the end of runway position, can keep you flying without the update.

Dave 

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