I chose the ILS 06 approach to KISP and ATC told me I was cleared for the "circle to land" approach. This one was new to me. Does this me I am cleared to circle at my own discretion? They cleared me to the localizer but never mentioned any circling. The approach plate shows a procedure turn but that's all. Thanks. Tom

Are they asking you to 'circle to land' for RWY 06, or 24?If wind is a factor, they might allow you to *approach* per 06, but then perform a downwind leg for 06, base leg, and land at 24. 24 has no procedural turn. They usually instruct a downwind leg for this though.Or, they are instructing you to perform the procedural turn as called for in the approach for 06.Just depends on what RWY you have been cleared for landing.

A Circle to Land approach is conducted when the runway of intended landing is not the one associated with the instrument approach being flown.For example, if the airport you are arriving at has only one instrument approach...say ILS 18...but the winds are strong from the north, then you shoot the ILS 18 Approach with an ATC clearance to "circle to land runway 36."However, in order to perform the circling approach, you must have the landing runway in sight at all times and if you lose sight, you have to shoot the missed approach.The approach plate will indicate what the circling minima are and they will virtually always be higher than the DH of a precision approach. Obviously, you must break out of the clag by the time you reach the circling minimum altitude or you have to go missed.Such approaches are very problematic in low wing aircraft since the wing can block the runway from sight. This is a subject of endless hangar flying debates but technically, even if the visibility is severe clear at the circling minimum altitude, if the wing blocks your view of the runway you are supposed to go missed. Few do, but then circling approaches are among the most dangerous moments in all of aviation.Very often the pilot will see the airport at the circling minimum but will pass in and out of clouds on the way toward the final approach course. But he/she turns on to final then re-enters the clouds...but will continue to descend anyway presuming he/she will break out again momentarily. Such a mistake is often the last one made by the pilot.Regards,Jim

Jim did a fine job of explaining it. You were cleared to approach the field on the ILS localizer to runway 6, but winds were probably out of the north or south, favoring runways 33L / 33R (for a Northwest approach) or 15L / 15R (for a Southeast approach). This requires that once visual with the field and the runways, you turn left or right and come around to orient yourself to the more favorable runway. Make sense? The trick is remaining visual with the runway, no easy task in FS9 due to our computer - limited field of view. And the solution to the low-wing problem is to just stay a bit further out if you can so that the wing does not obscure your view of the field as you turn.I've been a passenger on several Southwest flights going into Chicago Midway where we approached on the ILS to 31C only to circle around to the right (at very low altitude I might add!) to land on 22L. Of course the wing on a 737 is about 20 or 30ft behind the cockpit, so blocked visibility is not an issue with most jetliners. According to the KISP approach plate, the circling minima are between 580 and 660 ft, a few hundred feet above the decision height, as Jim pointed out. In addition to the risks of a low and slow approach, there is a significant increase in the pilot work-load associated with circling approaches. Staying visual as you run through checklists and set up the aircraft for approach and landing can be very demanding. Throw in a little weather, ATC communication and traffic and you can see where it might become overwehelming!http://www.graphics-free.com/animations/tr...ges/plane_6.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MDhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/146121.jpg

Alex,the limited view in FS9 is certainly a big problem. However like so many others have done lately I have to spread the gospel of TrackIR.:)TrackIR certainly is fantastic for making good use of the fantastic VC in some of the airliners (can you spell PMDG 747?), but where it really shines is in GA airplanes when you are flying patterns and need to keep track of the runway. In the beginning it might be a bit awkward to get used to for some, but once your brain has assimilated it there is no turning back! :)/Krister

>>This one was new to me. Does this me I am cleared to circle at my own >>discretion?It simply means that when you are visual with the runway you can commence a visual circuit to the opposite runway. This requires you to break left or right and establish your self on the downwind leg. To be realistic, you should do a missed approach if you are not visual with the runway by the MDA and you have reaced the missed approach point (MAPt). Also, you should be able to see the runway throughout the remainder of the procedure, if you loose sight of it you are meant to go-around by turning towards the runway and then starting the missed approach procedure when overhead the runway.As mentioned by others unless you have something like trackIR or a bank of monitors, FS doesn't make this any easier. However, doing this at night in FS is much easier than for real as FS's runway lights are omnidirectional. Real runway lights are unidirectional (runway directions only) so at night the runway can be very hard to see when downwind, not so bad in good VMC but I imagine it is very tricky for real in marginal conditions.

Hi Jim,Just to clarify a few things...>A Circle to Land approach is conducted when the runway of>intended landing is not the one associated with the instrument>approach being flown.Actually, you can circle to any runway, including one aligned with the final approach course. One criteria for a CTL approach is if the required descent rate is too high from the MDA to the runway. In this case, the pilot could make a straight in landing if the runway was acquired soon enough, or circle back to it. Check out Aspen, CO.>Obviously, you must break out of the clag>by the time you reach the circling minimum altitude or you>have to go missed.In the case of a non-precision approach, you are permitted to continue to the MAP at the circling MDA. A missed appp would not be required UPON ARRIVAL at circling MDA.>Such approaches are very problematic in low wing aircraft>since the wing can block the runway from sight. This is a>subject of endless hangar flying debates but technically, even>if the visibility is severe clear at the circling minimum>altitude, if the wing blocks your view of the runway you are>supposed to go missed. 14CFR91.175(e) is pretty clear about this, and permits loss of visual contact due to normal maneuvering of the aircraft.>Few do, but then circling approaches>are among the most dangerous moments in all of aviation.No doubt circling approaches have greater risk, but it is how the pilot manages that risk that ultimately determines the safety of the maneuver. Conducting a CTL to an unfamiliar airport at night with rising terrain is clearly a recipe for disaster.>Very often the pilot will see the airport at the circling>minimum but will pass in and out of clouds on the way toward>the final approach course. But he/she turns on to final then>re-enters the clouds...but will continue to descend anyway>presuming he/she will break out again momentarily. Such a>mistake is often the last one made by the pilot.>>Regards,>JimCary

Try the circle to land on runway 8 at Innsbruck LOWI, its in a valley surrounded by mountains. Real scary especially in a jetliner and the runway is rather short too.

In all of the circle-to-land approaches I've witnessed as a passenger, there really wasn't a 'downwind' leg per se. The captian just kept making a series aof small tight turns that eventually had us pointed at the runway. My window seat happened to be on the airport side, so I was able to take it all in.http://www.graphics-free.com/animations/tr...ges/plane_6.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

Ya know, Krister, I have been toying around with the notion of trying Track IR. Funny, though not surprising, that you should mention that. Hmmm....http://www.graphics-free.com/animations/tr...ges/plane_6.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

I personally, would never accept that kind of clearance at night, especially in any kind of weather.http://www.graphics-free.com/animations/tr...ges/plane_6.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

Actually, I was cleared by ATC to land on 24 but I "requested another approach" and chose 6. ATC OK'd the switch as they usually do. That's probably why I was given the circle to land, but I have never had it happen before when I selected a different approach. Thanks for all the feedback. Tom

Well, again, they may have cleared you to 06 as the approach to the airport, but I assume because of wind conditions, they still wanted you to land on 24....thus the 'circle to land'.I have this happen occasionally, but typically try to watch the wind conditions so I request the approach FS/ATC will not only clear me for approach, but also for landing....It would be no surprise to many that I the default FS ATC 'needs some work', and is not always entirely realistic (IMO) when it comes to providing a change in instruction per a 'pilot request'. There are times I will simply cancel my IFR flight plan, fly the approach of my choosing flying under 'VFR', and then contact Tower and declare a full stop landing at the start of my chosen approach pattern. Typically I am given clearance to land at my chosen RWY...but I do try and keep wind direction in mind when making my selection.