March 21, 20188 yr On 12/29/2017 at 1:49 AM, Mike777 said: I'm not sure what to do if the KL localizer is not available as I don't see any other navaid that is lined up with the approach course (up until the final right turn). Are there landmarks for a purely visual approach from the beginning of the 88o descent path? Thanks, Mike This may be what you are looking for: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QCySZ_ERcIy5CIeWVFDcWKVXR9HdDBZJ Cathay Pacific used to do this in early morning training in the 1980's. Edited March 21, 20188 yr by funkyhut1 Add CX comment. Chris Stanley VTCC
March 21, 20188 yr Well actually.. if you‘re doing an 88 degrees decent path all landmark you need is just straight below your airplane... :D ,
March 22, 20188 yr On 12/28/2017 at 3:53 PM, Bluestar said: I flew B707s into Kai Tak for years using nothing but raw data. In that case you must have been familiar with the visual approach to RWY 13 using Stonecutters and Green Island? On 12/28/2017 at 6:49 PM, Mike777 said: I'm not sure what to do if the KL localizer is not available as I don't see any other navaid that is lined up with the approach course (up until the final right turn). Are there landmarks for a purely visual approach from the beginning of the 88o descent path. Have a look on Youtube and you will see some good videos of this approach into Kai Tak, including the orange and white checkerboard which was used as a visual aiming point before making the final turn onto Runway 13 using the lead-in lights and PAPIS as a guide. Prior to flying this approach the pilots would inhibit the GPWS G/S warning and the turn onto final would sometimes catch crews out if they hadn't allowed for the change in wind direction and crosswind component relative to the aircraft. To the best of my knowledge RWY 13 IGS was not available if the LLZ was off the air, but RWY 31 was normally the preferred arrival runway anyway, with RWY13 used for departure. However, it is the departure on RWY 31 and the missed approaches in both directions that really concentrated the minds of most pilots! Bertie Goddard Bertie Goddard
March 23, 20188 yr 1 hour ago, berts said: the lead-in lights These lights were not available when I first started flying into Kai Tak. I Earned My Spurs in Vietnam
March 23, 20188 yr On 3/20/2018 at 9:26 PM, funkyhut1 said: This may be what you are looking for: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QCySZ_ERcIy5CIeWVFDcWKVXR9HdDBZJ Cathay Pacific used to do this in early morning training in the 1980's. Chris, Thank you very much for this chart. I think I can follow it. But I am wondering if there is more to this approach, as I can't tell the minimum altitudes for step-down after KL 7 DME. I actually disabled the KL IGS/DME in my scenery, but I calculate that KL 7 DME is approximately CH 4 DME on a 45 degree radial which points right at SC. So I'm using CH VOR and SC NDB for navigation until I can see the final approach path. I also am not sure what the crossing altitude for CH should be on this approach -- 8000 as in the usual approach is much too high to get down to 2000 by CH 4 DME. Thanks again! Mike
March 24, 20188 yr Hi Mike, https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WLrWNMfhdR8ZzSnlNcCu2JjIt5YLrBUK These should answer your altitude questions relating to the visual step down. CX used to do the straight in over CC on a heading of 041 to SC and make the visual turn just before SC (Stonecutters Island). The figure of 8 let down was a real challenge, especially in IMC. Hope this helps. Chris Stanley VTCC
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