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Guest Ken_Salter

Biting the hand that feeds you...

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Recently I have seen posts on this and other flightsim sites suggesting that users bypass the installer I created for my Stearman (Stear04.zip). I worked very hard and spent many hours to make the installation as clean and easy as possible. However, due to some recommending bypassing the installer, I have heard from several users who have sprayed the files all over their computers and now want my help in sorting it out. Sorry, but I made it easy for you. If you want to mess that up then you're on your own.In addition, AVG is reporting a FALSE POSITIVE for the presence of a virus/Trojan horse. This is NOT true. When you use cheap or free av software, you get what you pay for. Don't believe me? Read this review:http://www.software-antivirus.com/program/...rus-review.htmlI double scan each and every file with Norton AV and the latest virus definitions available as do the sites where I originally uploaded the file. I'm tired of chasing these reports on this and other sites and clearing my name. It really bothers me to work so hard and produce the finest FREE package that I can only to see others offer bad advice or spread false reports. It really makes me wonder if I should continue offering freeware on occasion or just stick to my commercial projects.David Eckertwww.daviator.com"It's simple task to make things complex and a complex task to make things simple."

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Hi there. I want to thank you first for all the work you've put in to make the Stearman. I think all of you who create these freeware models that we 'fly' about in are real heroes in this capitalistic age and I don't blame you for getting irritated with those of us who bugger about with things.I have your Marauder as well!Andy.

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Hello David,Don't be put off and get upset by the antics of those who think they know better and decide to take matters into their own hands. You can only do your best and the rest is up to them.I think the old saying, "you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink" applies very well here!If people decide not to follow instructions and mess up their systems then it's their lookout. You can only do your best.I don't have any of your freeware releases but I admire greatly those who take the time and effort to produce quality freeware products. Keep up the good work!CheersTimhttp://members.chello.nl/t.westnutt/realair1.gif

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I also appreciate the freeware, but can understand the reluctance and reticence of those who wish to not have to use an installer, especially ANY file with a .exe suffix. I personally will not download files with installers until long after all the issues have been tracked, traced, found and resolved. I make an exception ONLY for known and respected payware companies with a history of customer support. It's not to do with a lack of trust, but has everything to do with a non-transparent installation system that cannot tell me precisely what files it will add, change or delete BEFORE it does it. I have spent many hundreds of hours getting my FS system to be the way I want it, and I won't allow ANY file to change things without my knowledge, no matter how honourable the developer, or how worthy the addon.Does the Stearman include such a file, or confirm ALL files and folders that are to be modified befoer the .exe proceeds to mess with the system without the users knowledge? If yours doesn't do that, then don't use it. It's not `necessary` and the community will provide support for those who have trouble installing the `old fashioned` way, so you don't have to!Allcott

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Yes, AVG has been giving me false positives with ClickTeam installers. I know they're free of viruses, and I'm tiring of AVG!!How can a company offer free virus protection? It's very "iffy", and I hope they aren't collecting user info!I've now decided to move away from AVG ... thanks for the info, Dave :)

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Dave, yes, I am one that extracted the stearman to a temp folder. I am also one that got the AVG virus/trojan alert, doesn't mean I have any issues with your work, I enjoy it very much and thank you for your efforts! I just like to know what files are being installed on my system. If I could do this with Flight1 or FSD files and have them still work, I would as well. Right now I have 12 entries in my registry for freeware flightsim products that SHOULD NOT be there (not yours). There is NO reason a freeware addon should do this and it is the main reason, those people should stop using EXE files. As long as "I" have the option to point an EXE file into a temp folder, I'll run it.As for the AVG, I run 3 PCs networked in my place all with AVG and so far, other than a couple of incidents, it has run fine for the past 7 months. I am done with Norton and will never use McAfee again (wiping your HD to uninstall was not pleasent)Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

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>I personally will not download files with installers until>long after all the issues have been tracked, traced, found and>resolved. I make an exception ONLY for known and respected>payware companies with a history of customer support. Then there is me..If it does not have an auto-installer, more times than not, it doesn't get installed. I guess I have no patience for these type of things. :D L.Adamson

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I will take a FALSE-POSITIVE over a FALSE NEGATIVE everytime.I will stay with my FREE AVG. I am getting a ton of protection.Very seldom dowload anthing with a exe installer. Thank you.

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"I will take a FALSE-POSITIVE over a FALSE NEGATIVE everytime."Why not get something that produces neither? ;)"I will stay with my FREE AVG. I am getting a ton of protection."From the review posted above:"AVG Antivirus is the only decent free antivirus program available, but unfortunately it's far from good enough. Our advice: Don't listen to friends or fellow net users praising AVG Antivirus. Stay away if you're serious about staying protected."

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>From the review posted above:>"AVG Antivirus is the only decent free antivirus program>available, but unfortunately it's far from good enough. Our>advice: Don't listen to friends or fellow net users praising>AVG Antivirus. Stay away if you're serious about staying>protected."Yes well, that review looks like a bit dated. It refers to AVG 6.0 which has since had a major upgrade to AVG70 in december 2004. It mentions that updates only happen once a month, well my AVG70 updates every day it's virus definitions. I have been running it since this new version came out at the beginning of 2005 and I have no complaints. I have also been using Trend Micro's Housecall online virus checker as a back up as well. http://housecall.trendmicro.com/housecall/start_corp.aspAVG seems to keep me protected. When it finds a virus or trojan it tells me and quarantines it and it also keeps my e-mail clean. Housecall confirms there are no problems.I for one have no complaints about AVG free. It hasn't lt me down yet and does not hog resources like some I can mention.Cheershttp://members.chello.nl/t.westnutt/realair1.gif

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I'm with you Larry. The auto-installers work just fine. Over the past couple of years I've had many more issues arise from packages without an installer than I have from add-ons with. I guess if you're really worried about using the installer, just wait a few days before downloading and see if any issues arise for others. If theres an installer problem it'll be posted probably within a few minutes of the plane being released...

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My installer gives the the user the option to choose an alternate directory. In addition, I NEVER reinstall existing files. I also am one of the few that offers an uninstaller. However one would think that with thousands of downloads that you have read of issues long before now. As far as using the community forums to get support for my model, it doesn't work that way. They contact me first. As for comparing free AV to a free add-on, that's apples and cats. You are relying on a free AV program to protect you data and identity. Think about it, what are they getting out of the deal? Do you think it's hobby for them to do this? I bet it's a spyware cloak. I must say the attitude in this thread surprises me and it does make me really want to hang up the freeware hat. It's just not worth the agrevation and headaches. So keep your zips and freeware AV and I'll take my "business" elsewhere.David Eckertwww.daviator.com

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Hi David,I can appreciate your frustration, however try not to take it too personally. While you may be a devoted and dedicated designer (I have not tried your Stearman) the tone of your posts here are decidedly negative and possibly may put off future customers.Personally, I am extremely skeptical of autoinstallers unless I have prior reason to trust the designer. While it sounds like you are very careful and considerate in the design of your auotoinstall, I'm sure I don't need to tell you that not everyone is. -- Walt

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Hi Walt, This is the first time I have posted one of my files to Avsim. I don't generally frequent this site as I find the comments here typical of the attitude. Almost as if the users here are "entitled". I started an exact thread over at flightsim.com but the prevailing attitude is far more positive and supportive. What gets me is that users feel free to make comments in pubic forums about one's work without checking with the author first. This can cause great harm to my hard-earned reputation as a designer. My website and email address is on the readme in the main ZIP file but few bother to read it first. I always thought those of my friends who have gone 100% commercial did so just for the money. I now see that that is not the case. Commercial projects bring far fewer negative comments and support issues with the added bonus of cash. Dave

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Dave, hang on in there. Your Stearman is the best, and how anyone can even think of posting that they haven't tried it I don't know. Westnutt, get out of that Spitfire, you clown! You've flown the Stearman for real ... get in this one!I don't use autoinstallers out of preference as I've found too many screw-ups in the past, particularly where gauges have been overwritten. No reflection on you, or any other particular designer, it's just my preference because I like to know what's going into my system. But that's my call. Anyone who chooses the manual route and then moans and groans ought to take a long walk on a short pier.Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/newlogo.jpg

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How do you know AVG hasn't let you down? How do you know you don't have many false negative and your system isn't leaking data and personal information out the back door like a sieve? Or that it's being use to propagate trojan horses? Just because your hard drive hasn't tanked doesn't mean you run a clean machine. Unlike flightsim add-ons, these guys are not providing free AV software because it's a hobby. They get something for it. I suspect it's a spyware cloak.

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Dave, If your idea of freeware is that you feel it should be above criticism, then yes, perhaps it is time for you to leave. Or get a thicker skin! Are you suggesting you came here, posted what you did, being disrespectful of other simmers and expect us to be only GRATEFUL? If you're looking for an excuse to quit maybe, OK, use us as the excuse. If however the idea is that a developer - payware or freeware - is capable of listening to the needs of the user through forums such as these, then please feel free to take ideas and suggestions on board in the spirit in which they are intended. I think you have the benefit of an entirely reasonable exchange, with both `pros` and `cons` for your way of doing things, and it is YOU who are being rude Dave, BY NOT LISTENING. If you have so little respect for your fellow simmers then again yes, perhaps it is time for you to leave.In this case we are actually discussing the unnecessary .exe installer, not the addon software itself. A topic which you raised Dave, not anyone here. If you are that sensitive to issues relating to the installer, I am only grateful that I haven't yet downloaded and installed the Stearman. Sorry, but this is one biplane I think I will leave well alone, it's just not worth the hassle. Oh and thanks for your contribution to the hobby and the forum Dave.Allcott

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I now have Command AV software. It has a better interface than AVG (IMHO), and uses LESS system resources :D. It's only

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>Sorry, but this is one biplane I think I will leave well>alone, it's just not worth the hassle. >I didn't get any rude "feeling" from the original post. I mean jee-wizz, I completely agree. As I've stated earlier, I much appriciate auto-installers for aircraft.If my flight simming required daily file manipulation, then I'd be flying X-Plane more often! :D But I'm just not into that!And.............since I've had the pleasure of flying a real Stearman, I'll be sure to download this one, right now!L.Adamson

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Exactly Larry, if he's that sensitive to a discussion based on a topic he raised, which had no rude feeling, then gawd noze how miffed he'd be if we were to find fault with the airplane!I don't think I want to find out. Freeware is not obligatory for either the author or the user. I choose not to. Dave can make his own decision.Allcott

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Hey Dave,I would be surprised if any freeware developer hasn't been slammed from time or another. I sure have. It's one thing to get an email saying your addon is a piece of junk (which I have), but to see a thread saying that for the whole simming world to see is another. (which I also have).I was soooo tempted to make a reply when the post was about my addon but I held my breath and knew in a day or two the thread would be lost in the back pages as new topics were posted. (But of course someone would then make a comment and the post would be right up there on top again!!! Rats! x( )I can only say look at the total number of downloads for your addon compared to the number of people making complaints. That should let you know where the majority of simmers stand. A handful rant & rave, thr rest of us are busy flying and having fun.Yes, many simmers who have been around the block do not care for auto installs but I remember when starting out auto installs were a blessing. I wouldn't have known what to put where and really would have screwed up my installs. Sometimes it's good to let the user have the option... support one method, support both, you decide - you are the developer.The only last comment I can make is I don't believe half the things I read here or on the web... or should I say I dilute what I read by 50%. Just because it's in print (or should I say on a site), doesn't mean it's the gospel. That goes for the website reviewing AVG, these threads, and even my thread! ;)

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Alcott-Very well said! I develop freeware stuff as well and must say it sounds like an excuse for him to quit developing in less words. Perhaps trying to get praise too?Am I to get down on my knees and PRAISE those who offer freeware and act like I am walking on eggshells to supply feedback to the developer? Nahhh! Not worth it on my end (as the user) either. I know from developing what I do that NOTHING is perfect, and EXPECT people to voice their opinions to BETTER my work! Now I agree fully that SOME people are just plain IGNORant, so I do the same and IGNORE them (I am "thicker skinned" I guess). I have been contributing to the FS community since FS share group was only on COMPUSERVE, so I guess some of the NEWER freeware people are not seeing the FULL PICTURE?BTW I haven't heard of nor do I even have the add on we're talking about here, just browsing through and rolling my eyes...

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Thanks Tom.The fact is that this is a topic that's been discussed before at length in this forum and had Dave taken the time to use the search engine his unnecessary post need never have appeared. Indeed, he might have got some insight before he even decided to use an auto-installer!I can only assume there is an `agenda` here and it isn't about the efficiency of an auto-installer.Allcott

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Dave wrote: > My installer gives the the user the option to choose an alternate directory.

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I guess I am as sure as you are about your scanner not giving falsae-negatives. How do you tell on yours? I bet the same way I do on mine.Oh, I guess to be completely correct about my protection --- My provider scans ALL my email with Postini. So the virus emails never get down from the server and thus AVG hasn't a chance in the email side. Everyone shouls be so lucky. Double protection.Here is how I fool the autoinstallers when I do use one:I rename the "Flight Simulator 9" folder to "Orig flight Simulator 9" and then make a new empty folder called ... "Fligh simulator 9" in the "Microsoft Games" folder. Run the installer exe downladed program and then inspect the dummy "Flight Simulator 9" folder for the folders and files it created. For additional information use explorer tools and tell it to find all the files installed in the last day. Sort the files by date and it should be clear what the installer exe installed. Not a 100% safe, but it will at least tell me what the honest folks out there did to my system. for more protection, let the downloaded file rest several days, update your protection, scan it, and then do the above.Oh, the reason I would give AVG for nothing the single user is that by doing that I have a very large userbase that is scanning many many files. Thus I have a very large test group that allows me to update the commericial data base in a hurry. I guess I would also have every available software package running also -- and have many emails addies on many forums setting traps for the Aholes of the world.Yep David, you often get exactly, as you siad, what you pay for. Excepting mine and your work of course.Example of my work:http://imageevent.com/dvds4bmx

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