Guide Balancing VC and 2D GTN screen brightness

[por930 51]

On 12/5/2018 at 6:54 AM, Bert Pieke said:

Guess what... if you want to adjust the brightness independently, there is a need for this section..

Hi Bert, Yes, I agree. I have been having to use the pop up GTN750, because the in dash version is sooo bright, I can't read it. Hence my visit here to this thread. I was sort of understanding it, then I realised, there is no NO_BEZEL section in the RealityXP.GTN.ini file..is there? So, does this mean I have to, well, I have no idea what I have to copy..A whole section of some thing, then?

@RXPJean-Luc, would be great if you simply had an additional knob some where to adjust the brightness for the in dash no bezel gauge. To you and others, maybe great fun tinkering. There is a group of us who prefer to not lift the bonnet too much, but tweak a button somewhere.  

[RXP 2,336]

@por930 please make sure to review the RXP GTN User's Manual p10 first. This explains the overall ini file settings structure and what relates to what. Then review p11 for a step-by-step example. You'll be able to tweak your ini file in no time!

Edited February 18, 2019 by RXP

[por930 51]

4 minutes ago, RXP said:

@por930 please make sure to review the RXP GTN User's Manual p10 first. This explains the overall ini file settings structure and what relates to what. Then review p11 for a step-by-step example. You'll be able to tweak your ini file in no time!

We shall see Jean-Luc...some of us old sods struggle a bit at this under the bonnet stuff. I have been on the dark side for the last few months with the heavy guys, using their FMS systems. I only returned to the light guys and the GTN750 when getting P3Dv4.4 loaded and testing of the addons.

[por930 51]

ummmm, OK read the pages in the manual. I know what children mean by saying yes I can read the words but what does it mean...What an exercise in frustration that was/is. Anyway, enough whinging....I created the [GTN_750.NO_BEZEL], by copying the GTN_750_1 and renaming it. Is the brightness.bezel xx and brightness.screen xx supposed to have the same or differing values?  Do you have to adjust the two same item values in the [GTN_750_1.DEFAULT] area? or other areas? I only have the GTN750.

Also, when I get into the config area, There is the screen brightness slide adjuster 1-100 as well. Then there is the backlight % to play with. At least these two adjustments can be carried out with the sim running.

Because you have to turn P3D on/off every time the ini file is adjusted, the process is very tedious, especially as I really have no plan

OK at least I some how managed to get the in dash map sort of readable and not dazzling bright, so I did achieve some thing, and must be stumbling my way closer.

 

[RXP 2,336]

@por930 please re-read! I know it seems complex but it is not in the end.

A gauge can have multiple instances of self in the panel. The gauge displaying in 1 popup window is 1 instance of the gauge, the gauge displaying in the VC panel is another 1 instance of the gauge.

The panel.cfg file tells for each instance of the same gauge where and how big it shows. This takes the form of:

gauge## = File ! Name , x, y, w, h [,param]

where File is rxpGTN, Name is GTN_750_1, param is optional.

Example: gauge00 = rxpGTN ! GTN_750_1, 0, 0, 100, 100, MY_COOL_NAME

 

Accordingly there are 2 different kind of settings:

• gauge settings affecting the gauge as a whole, and
• instance settings affecting each instance.

This is reflected in the ini file with named sections in brackets:

• Section containing just the gauge name, [GTN_750_1] have gauge settings affecting all instances (these are common such as TCAD, Fuel Type etc..). This section is what the GUI Configuration Panel shows.
• Section containing the gauge name and a suffix [GTN_750_1.SUFFIX] have instance settings affecting a named instance. These are specific to this instance only (such as nobezel, popleft, etc...) and there is no GUI to configure the settings

Therefore, the ini file gauge settings are in a section with the same name as the gauge file name: [GTN_750_1], and the instance settings are in a section with the name DOT param name, for example: [GTN_750_1.MY_COOL_NAME]

 

When you use the RXP GTN Panel Assistant to add a GTN to a panel it default creates the gauge section and the popup window instance section (named 'DEFAULT'). When not using a 'param' in the gauge## line the gauge assumes it is using 'DEFAULT'. 

Like explained in the User's Manual: should you want to specifically configure an instance, you'd create a named section for it:

• make a copy of the 'DEFAULT' section (don't copy the general section but the instance default section).
• rename it to what you want, say MY_COOL_SECTION
• add the 5th param to the gauge## line of the instance you want to assign this section to (rxpGTN!GTN_750_1,0,0,100,100,MY_COOL_SECTION)
• change the section settings to what you want
• don't mix settings names: only the ones in the DEFAULT section apply to your custom instance section (nobezel, tooltips, usemouse etc...)

Edited February 19, 2019 by RXP

[por930 51]

@RXP Thank you for your detailed explanation.

[fppilot 4,336]

13 minutes ago, por930 said:

Thank you for your detailed explanation.

Are there specific GA aircraft models you would like specific help with?  User to User is perhaps the greatest attribute of Avsim, and here we all are.....

[por930 51]

4 hours ago, fppilot said:

Are there specific GA aircraft models you would like specific help with?  User to User is perhaps the greatest attribute of Avsim, and here we all are.....

Hi Frank, thanks for the offer. The bit I was missing in the puzzle was the need (and how) to create the additional 'default' renamed section and how to make the changes to it and the various other ini settings, as well as the GTN750 screen brightness slide adjuster, as well as the backlight % to affect the overall result. Only after thinking about other comments in the forum, my various "settings" results, and the user manual over dinner last night did the penny drop. If ever there was a GUI needed, this is an area. I appreciate that Jean-Luc is very smart and being the builder, it is all very obvious. Not so to some of us.

Anyway Frank........I have now managed to get the two screens pretty close so that I can use either the in dash or popup GTN750. 

Just realised, I need to do this again for the several other aircraft which have the GTN750 in it!! I guess I will be well practiced by then. Maybe we need a sticky section in the RXP GTN forum with the typical settings we need? As I do not have the F1GTN, I could not check their forum if they had similar issues....OK, off to attack the PC12 settings.

[fppilot 4,336]

Here is what I have observed:

Through the GTN touch-screen menus, the System, Backlight setting adjusts both the virtual cockpit gauge and the 2D popup equally.  That value appears stored internally.  If I change it around I can find no changes to the"RealityXP.GTN.ini" file. It can be used to set brightness, but controls both, so is not useful in adjusting the VC and 2D to match each other.

In the RXP GTN's Settings (shift + right-click on top edge of bezel), under Display Settings the Screen Brightness slider there actually controls the "Rheostat.Display=" variable in the aircraft's "RealityXP.GTN.ini" file, and it equally affects both the VC and 2D popup. So again it is not useful for matching brightness between the VC and 2D popup.  By he way, I learned this controls the Rheostat.Display setting by temporarily adjusting the value in Display Settings to a clearly identifiable value, such as 63, then checking the .ini file.

So the key to matching brightness appears to me, through practice, to be the "brightness.screen = " variable in the "RealityXP.GTN.ini" file.  To make sure it does not change somehow, I define it in a user-defined section.  I use added custom-named sections to control no bezel, screen brightness, and popup settings. Placing them in a user-defined section protects them somewhat.

I cannot explain why the slider in the Settings area is named Screen Brightness but instead controls Rheostat.Display. I find that confusing given that there is an actual but separate "Screen.Brightness=" variable in the .ini file.  I only fully recognized it while writing this today

Below as an example are two sections from my Milviz Cessna 310 Redux  "RealityXP.GTN.ini"  file.  The first of the two sections establishes a no bezel setting, the 2D popup action, and sets the screen.brightness at -40.  The second section establishes closing of the popup back to the virtual cockpit panel.  As you work with these, one cardinal rule is that the value for "popright= " must match the value given for "Ident= " for the gauge in the appropriate [Window##] section of the aircraft's panel.ini file.  The same holds true for popleft= if you happen to define it for use.

My "brightness.screen = " values are primarily around the minus 40 range.  I checked five models and I range from -35 to -50 for that setting.  I believe for one aircraft I may have gone as far as -70. 

From RealityXP,GTN.ini:
[GTN_750_1.POP_NO_BEZEL]
nobezel = true
popright = 15531
brightness.screen = -40

[GTN_750_1.UNPOP_RXP]
popright = 15531
 

From Panel.cfg:
//===================
[Window07]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=530,495
ident=15531
window_pos= 0.770, 0.5850
window_size= 0.2300, 0.4000
zorder=99
gauge00=rxpGTN!GTN_750_1, 0, 0,530,495, UNPOP_RXP

Edited February 20, 2019 by fppilot

[por930 51]

@fppilot Awesome work Frank. The issue of balancing screen brightness between the 2D popup and the 3D in dash screen is quite involved. Not just a few of us, but probably most of us have the issue of varying levels of brightness in one or both instances of the screen, and some of the users are having to explore ways to 'solve' the conundrum of balancing the two screen's brightness. The user manual (page 10> of the user manual explains the methodology of the logic between the two screens, and some of the users have understood better than others...yeah, like me. The popright = mentioned by Frank made me wonder why this is involved with an instance of screen brightness?

@RXPI would like to see consideration given by RXP to provide a v2 RealityXP.GTN.ini and panel.cfg? to replace the initially installed versions we have. It will have the new ini file with added sections and some way the trigger values that are essential to balancing the screen brightness highlighted. Then a v3 version some time down the road?, when we bring up the config screen in the GTN ( shift key/right edge) there is some Rheostat?? 'tool' with a knob or slide that enables us to change the brightness of each screen interdependently thereby balancing both screens to suit the aircraft and our systems.  

[RXP 2,336]

Hi,

these are good points and I understand the confusion (I guess). However you must also understand all this is happening only because the simulator (FltSim/Prepar3d) gauge/panel rendering engine is 20 years old... yes even in P3D4.4 and their PBR... This is good for backward compatibility, but this puts you, the user, in the uncomfortable position of having to manually tweak and adjust in order to integrate components.

Our products have deep integration possibilities and like everything, it takes some time to understand, learn, use comfortably, and like anything, practice is the best method, although frustrating at time I agree.

Having said this, the GTN and the GNS V2 are designed with these simulator limitations in mind and do their best to helping you adjust every conceivable parameter in a fine-grained manner.

Back to the topic, Frank, I understand how the setting naming is confusing. Now taking the example of the Configuration Panel | Screen Brightness: try clicking the blue square to the left and see what the label changes to...?

First, think of gauge as a TV program (the content), and instance as TV set displaying the program (the view): all your TVs show the same program at the same time in different rooms (the popup window, the VC panel).

Gauge Options | Screen Brightness is a gauge setting, so this affects the gauge as a whole, whichever instance. An instance is a gauge in a popup window, the same gauge in the virtual cockpit, etc... (any gauge##= rxpGTN!GTN_XXX_Y in the panel.cfg file creates a unique instance of the same gauge GTN_XXX_Y).

Gauge Options | Screen Brightness is a 'shape-shifting' setting (2-in-1): Rheostat, adjustable via a simvar (see User's Manual). If a 3rd party vendor writes our simvar with their panel button there you have it, otherwise use a fixed brightness.

NB: X-Plane ships with a standard Rheostat 'dataref' (equivalent to simvars in FltSim) most vendors are using by default which makes the GTN/GNS V2 rheostat adjustable in most aircraft as-is... 

However, the in-device System | Brightness setting affects the GTN device only, which in turn affects any gauge for this device only, which in turn affects any instance of this gauge.

Now each instance can have its own 'rendering' settings individually set per-instance. This is the section where you have the additional 'brightness' related parameters, the nobezel parameter etc... This is a mechanism which allow you to alter each instance independently of the other. Using a per-instance custom rendering section instead of the default allows you to OVERRIDE the default with 'local' settings to the instance.

I admit the documentation is probably not deep enough for some topics and we're trying to build a knowledge base over time, thanks to the forum, which can later be referenced (search) and/or appended to the User's Manual once we can allocate more time to this task. For the time being, the forum is the best place and helps us gauging the difficulties our customers are encountering so that we enhance our products regularly from your feedback: you can see our long release notes discussions and our first GTN customers can appreciate how we evolve the products overtime!

[fppilot 4,336]

Jean-luc,
Sorry for two elements here. First, I apologize that I caused you to take what appears like an inordinate amount of time to write that response.  And second, I apologize that most of that went right over my head.  I do not have the tech savvy to keep up with all that is in that message.  I have achieved my own desired results based on my trial-and-error method.

I watch a number of real life youtube videos posted by active real-world pilots/owners.  In one recent video the pilot was having his avionics updated with a pair of new Garmin digital multi-functions HSI gauges (there is yet another RXP product opportunity, LOL!).  He posted a photograph taken during the installation that showed the panel opened up and an octopus of wires and cables spilling out of the panel into the cockpit during the installation process.  His comment was that he wished he had never seen it opened up like that because he found it frightening to see the nature of what lurks underneath the highly refined working panel.

That speaks volumes.  Many users in the sim world, me included, have resorted to spending very significant time learning to poke around under the hood so to speak, to learn just enough to solve this issue or that. To overcome this barrier or that barrier.  Thank goodness we have had the presence of those such as Bert P and Bills511 among others to nurture us along.  And you as well. But it often is inch by inch.  Meanwhile we have spent nearly as many hours doing that as we have logged flight time.

The current User Manuals for GTN and GNS represent something perhaps better characterized as SDK documentation. They are that technical.  And despite the learning from time I have spent on this issue or that issue, I still understand perhaps only half of them.

There is a user who appeared in the support area today inquiring what Cessna 172 out of the box is integrated with an RXP.  He wants turnkey.  It may be a naive inquiry given the nature of the simulator world, but I certainly understand where he is coming from,

[por930 51]

This conversation reminds me of a similar one I had with Burkhard Renk, the creator of Mytraffic6. Good program for populating airports with AI...if you could follow all the steps and not fall into too may holes getting it to load and run and change schedules. It had different manually actioned and carried out load routines depending on platforms. If you tried to change a AI flight plan, Burkhard used to say, Read the manual, it is all there...'just do this'. This required much under the hood very skilled maneuvers, and you did spend a fair amount of time in the SDK, and needed a high degree of ability. Burkhard used to say to me, sorry, the code it is built on, makes changes and GUI additions difficult. He has since "retired" in poor health. 

I guess like MyTraffic6, RXP GTN750 has been built on very old, existing FSX / SDK code and needed to be massaged through several variations by Jean-luc to work the magic he creates. It is a testament to Jean-luc's programming ability and logic that it works so well and to be honest, it does not take a lot to get it running.( ok, I had issues, but got there) Like a lot of the older type code programs, unless the author has some smarts built into it, you have to be prepared and have the ability to get under the hood on occasions. Getting under the hood is not so bad, if the author, or forum whiz's like Bert, Bill  or Frank and must be others, who are kind enough to provide their road map.

A road map for these modifications can take on many forms. From, you need to read the manual ( I usually do this, but alas, these days, when it dives under the hood, I can soon get lost, and I go find WAMA, and long term park the aircraft) or you can be told, just do this or that, Ummm, what does that mean, reads or sounds ok, but how and where do I get the bits to work together....A few of the forum folk here, provided their snippets of their changes to the various "ini or cfg" files. For those of us who had been previously 'studying these bits, it helped greatly..to an extent.

I think the ideal solution, is for an explanation (tutorial) that is created, ideally by the author and walks you though the process. And no, not "do this, and this and you are done"...But step by step, show you. A full worked example. Jean-luc's user manual to me, is more a reference manual in some areas. The brightness issue of the popup and in dash screens are a good example. No doubt, all the information is there to carry out the task. You just got to understand it, then find all the bits and tie them together and work out which bits are relevant to you and which you need to change to make each of the screens brighter or darker. The ideal instruction set is one that your wife, with no flight sim experience could read and get it working. Well, maybe that is asking too much, but you get the idea. 

So, who is a good step by step writer?   

[RXP 2,336]

@fppilot @por930 You are both right and I hear you. No need to apologize Frank, you make me practicing and this gives me the occasion to see if explaining differently further helps or not. I'm certain the more 'view angles' to the same question, the better the understanding, and this post above might help others.

Yes the User's Manual covers the surface to get started and then switches to 'reference mode'. The product is designed with mobile apps simplicity in mind: you just need to know about the add-on menu to add a device to any panel, and about the configuration panel to further adjust the settings.

From there, you can dig deeper and we provide the technical bits, and I know most of these bits are meant for 3rd party vendors so that they make custom integrations for you, the customers. As a matter of fact, most X-Plane 3rd party aircraft with Reality XP device configurations were nearly entirely done from just the technical information laid out in the manual.

A step-by-step guide is indeed badly needed but I'm wondering what can be done without getting too technical. Integration deals with the FltSim SDK to get started with, and most of the content I've just posted above for example is 90% panel.cfg/SDK related. This is supposed to be in the Prepar3D SDK and it is also a good place to get started, albeit there also it is highly technical reference based.

One item which might certainly help the most is a 'Rendering Configuration' assistant along the lines of the 'Configuration Panel', which would allow to define any such gauge instance settings in a GUI. You'd mostly have to pick up a gauge instance listed, click a (+) icon to add/configure settings, then be done with it?

[por930 51]

@RXP  @fppilot Jean-Luc, I think the answer is for you to provide a full process start to finish of getting the brightness issue sorted. You obviously know how to do this very well. So, pick any aircraft, maybe the FSW Learjet 35A or any other, as I resume the logic will be the same, regardless of aircraft, just the user's settings of "X" may need to be different, and start writing. e.g..remember there are people who are not as gifted as you(me for instance) that will never be able to follow the golden bits of info in the manual. and not know when you jump a few steps because it is "obvious". Show the steps and probably the reason for the step every time. Refer to the user manual to reinforce the manual and the practical application being laid out.

Install the RXP GTN750 into the sim P3D/FSX as per the user manual, pages xxx. [I recall the Falcon 50 have their own RXP GTN 750 installer now? so maybe a reference to this is needed as not sure what the correct install method is. ] maybe other helpful info to do with the install could go here?

Maybe a comment about when you have the GTN750 loaded in an aircraft and you use the popup gauge, you may notice the in dash screen is very difficult to read. If so, this is the remedy.

Carry out a search of your PC and find the RealityXP.GTN.ini for the aircraft you need to modify ....[Mine was in E:\P3D\Simobjects\Airplanes|FLYSIM Falcon 50]

Show the full......RealityXP.GTN.ini......... yes, I know most of it is not needed, but show it. Maybe the first time some people seen one.

You need to locate [GTN_750_1.DEFAULT] and copy and paste it to the end of the listing in the ini file.

Show the copied  [GTN_750_1.DEFAULT] at the end of the ini file. Maybe the ini file is cut down to only show this addition.

You now need to change the title to of what you just copied  [GTN_750_1.DEFAULT] to [GTN_750_1.NO_BEZEL]  you may want to talk about naming here, calling it what you want

Notice the second line down, nobezel=false You need to change this to ..nobezel = true [reason why this is now true?] refer to manual page number 

Now you will need to show the other ini file changes, eg popleft = etc or whatever is needed, Frank seemed to have this sorted? Are there any rules that this always equals that.

Then there is the panel.cfg that needs mods? show the relevant panel.cfg and its mods and explain why and how this links to the ini file

Then show the lines in the panel.cfg and the relevant ini file(s) and what ever else that need adjustment. 

talk about how you test the colour between the two gauges using this method.

mention the screen brightness slide adjuster in the config area and how to use it when making final adjustments. Mention its method of one screen darker one lighter(very #$%^ frustrating that bit^^^^) mention the screen brightness blue box when actioned turning into a Rheostat. What has that done for you. 

mention the System Backlight adjustment % that you can change + or - in settings

MAKE SURE YOU ARE SAVING THE SETTINGS WHILE TESTING REGULARLY AND THE EVENTUAL END PRODUCT SOME WHERE SAFE.   

I am not on my flight sim machine, so can't get to example files, and i would be the worst to write this tutorial.

Anyway Jean-Luc, this brightness setting "adjustment" is not 5 minutes work. It is quite a head full to get around, as there are many variables to sort out and 'rules' to match and then the need to make gradual changes. Got there. Guess what, I have to do this all over again for other aircraft. Sure, when you have done a few...what was the fuss about. You just gained a ton of knowledge. Some one just purchasing RXP will love you for this tutorial.