Pete Dowson

P3D-style XML flight plans import only start and end

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Posted (edited)

I've a number of relatively short (up to 1 hour in a 738) flightplans made by PFPX which, when imported into P2A only show as departure and arrival airports. None of the waypoints between.

Now it may be that, since these plans are quite short, many of the waypoints are part of the SIDs and STARs selected by PFPX at the time. But certainly not all in most cases.

Anyway, I did have the options set for ATC to assign SID, STAR and Approach, so possibly those parts of the Import are discarded so that they don't conflict -- very nice if it does that as then I can re-use the same plans with different weather conditions. BUT as a test i disabled those ATC options, but got the same result -- just the two airports, nothing else (well, except for a TOD given for LOWI on the LSGG to LOWI plan.

I don't know what is going wrong. I've ZIPPed up a bunch of XML plans and hope you can point me in the right direction. I'll send as an email attachment as I don't seem to be able to attach files here.

Oh, I've just tested with the older FS9 format plans, and that loads them just as they are (even if I have ATC options set to set SID/STAR/Approach). I've included in the ZIP the FS9 format equivalents too.

BTW if I want ATC to set the SID/STAR/Approach, will it remove the unwanted elements loaded which are for now unwanted procedures? That would be neat and just the job! Really only the non-SID/STAR/Approach waypoints should be included in the first place if those options are set. That would be ideal.

Thanks
Pete

 

Edited by Pete Dowson

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the detail description and the emailed flight plans.

The original problem of only getting the 2 airports when importing was due to a bug which is fixed for the next update.  Thanks for finding it.

Of course, I couldn't stop there.  The current import, by design, only imports the non-procedure waypoints so that you can add the SID or STAR after importing based on winds, etc. for today.

Because the SID/STAR info is available in the P3D .pln files, I couldn't resist modifying the program to go ahead and import those waypoints.  I found that some of the waypoints and even SIDs/STARs were invalid...no longer exist in published procedures.

So, the way it will work in update 2407R is the SID/STAR waypoints will be imported.  If the SID/STAR exists, that SID/STAR will be added to the flight plan instead of just having the waypoints.  This is because there is a major difference for ATC when an actual SID or STAR is Active in the flight plan.

If, on the other hand, the waypoints or SID/STAR are invalid, the waypoints will be added to the flight plan, but a "**" will be placed after the name and an error message will be displayed.  If the user wants to delete the bad waypoints and add a SID/STAR, then it will be easy to identify and delete them.

Thanks again,

Dave

Edited by Dave-Pilot2ATC

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25 minutes ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

The original problem of only getting the 2 airports when importing was due to a bug which is fixed for the next update.  Thanks for finding it.

Well, thanks for fixing it! ;-)

27 minutes ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

The current import, by design, only imports the non-procedure waypoints so that you can add the SID or STAR after importing based on winds, etc. for today.

Great! Just the job!

27 minutes ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

Because the SID/STAR info is available in the P3D .pln files, I couldn't resist modifying the program to go ahead and import those waypoints.

So is that what is happening for the FS9 files at present?

28 minutes ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

I found that some of the waypoints and even SIDs/STARs were invalid...no longer exist in published procedures.

Yes, that will be true. so of those files (as you can tell from the dates) are quite old. Normally I'd make new files regularly, but it would be nice to re-use old ones, and at least the plans do contain the LAT/LON of each waypoint, so, they should theoretically still be usable. 

31 minutes ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

So, the way it will work in update 2407R is the SID/STAR waypoints will be imported.  If the SID/STAR exists, that SID/STAR will be added to the flight plan instead of just having the waypoints.

Ah, that IS disappointing. I would expect that if the options to get P2A to assigns the SID/STAR/Approach were not selected, but not if they were.

That means I'll have to look at exporting from PFPX a different way. I definitely want P2A to assign these procedures depending on the weather, even if the PFPX plan was generated not long before with the same weather and therefore probably had the same ones.

I'll have to have a look at how i use PFPX and maybe export plans at some more primitive stage in the planning.

No chance of changing your mind on this?

Pete

 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Ah, that IS disappointing. I would expect that if the options to get P2A to assigns the SID/STAR/Approach were not selected, but not if they were.

As long as you don't have the "Force Pilot Runway Selection" option checked, then if the winds favor a different runway and you use Auto Plan, the runways and procedures will be changed to match the current conditions, even though the plan has procedures in it already.  So importing them does not affect this.

In the case of invalid waypoints or procedures, you will need to delete them before adding the new procedures. 

Dave

Edited by Dave-Pilot2ATC

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

As long as you don't have the "Force Pilot Runway Selection" option checked, then if the winds favor a different runway and you use Auto Plan, the runways and procedures will be changed to match the current conditions, even though the plan has procedures in it already.  So importing them does not affect this.

But doesn't "AutoPlan" re-plan the enite route?

I wish to use the plan PFPX generates for me, just with P2A assigned SID/STAR/Approach. There will usually be at least one non-procedure waypoint, and often many. Look at the EGCC-EIDW example for instance.

If I use AutoPlan and let P2A do the complete plan, what's the point of my planning with PFPX -- and using all the other valuable and relevant inforation it generates as a result and which I use to program performance data in my FMS?

What was wrong with it as you said it was? You said:

"The current import, by design, only imports the non-procedure waypoints so that you can add the SID or STAR after importing based on winds, etc. for today."

That would seem to be just the job! It was only the problem with those XML plans which needed fixing! I Think I should have just kept quiet, and just used the FS9 plans which I can also generate with PFPX.

Pete

 

 

Edited by Pete Dowson

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Auto Plan does not plan the en-route waypoints or airways.  Only the SIDs, STARs and Approaches. 

The assumption is that you plan the route either manually or with PFPX or other tool.  Then P2A "plans" the procedures based on current weather conditions.

Try importing a plan from PFPX and press Auto Plan.  You'll see the route is left undisturbed.

Dave

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8 hours ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

Auto Plan does not plan the en-route waypoints or airways.  Only the SIDs, STARs and Approaches.

Aha! I didn't realise that!

But if I don't do that, preferring to be told during Clearance for the SID and Approach for the STAR and Approach, would having "Autoplanned" prevent those changing -- if the winds changed in the interim, for instance (I know, unlikely for the departure, but more likely for arrivals)?

And what if I generate a few plans in advance and save them, e.g for a day's session of successive flights, something which my relatively short flights make easily possible?

9 hours ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

In the case of invalid waypoints or procedures, you will need to delete them before adding the new procedures.

Just on clarification of this, it can happen of course over a monthly AIRAC update.  Is this restriction because of the problem of identifying the actualy procedure so that it can be removed?

8 hours ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

Try importing a plan from PFPX and press Auto Plan.  You'll see the route is left undisturbed.

Yes, I will do some tests so I can see this working.

Thanks,

Pete

 

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5 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

But if I don't do that, preferring to be told during Clearance for the SID and Approach for the STAR and Approach, would having "Autoplanned" prevent those changing -- if the winds changed in the interim, for instance (I know, unlikely for the departure, but more likely for arrivals)?

The "Force Pilot Runway Selection" controls this.  If, for example, you want to practice ILS approaches or a particular Arrival, you can check this and P2A  will give you the filed Arrival and Approach.  Otherwise, P2A will recalculate the proper Runway and procedures a few minutes before TOD or first STAR waypoint and give you a "final" assignment in the "Expect the xxx arrival with the ....." call.

 

5 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Just on clarification of this, it can happen of course over a monthly AIRAC update.  Is this restriction because of the problem of identifying the actually procedure so that it can be removed?

Invalid waypoints are added to the plan as part of the Route, since they cannot be part of a procedure.  As such, they may prevent a clean auto calculation of the best procedure.  In many cases, it won't be a problem, but in some, you'll end up with the invalid waypoints not being replaced and messing up the plan.  Best to delete them.

Along this line, I have adapted the "Export SID/STAR/Approach Waypoints" to be the Import-Export SID/STAR/Approach Waypoints option.  If you turn this off, none of the procedures will be imported.  This will allow you to decide if you even want to see the old procedures that may have been in the plan originally.

Dave

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4 minutes ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

Otherwise, P2A will recalculate the proper Runway and procedures a few minutes before TOD or first STAR waypoint and give you a "final" assignment in the "Expect the xxx arrival with the ....." call.

Just the job!

5 minutes ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

I have adapted the "Export SID/STAR/Approach Waypoints" to be the Import-Export SID/STAR/Approach Waypoints option.  If you turn this off, none of the procedures will be imported.  This will allow you to decide if you even want to see the old procedures that may have been in the plan originally.

That sounds good too.

Thanks!

Pete

 

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