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jwyman

Plane climbs/descends on its own whil on AP

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Hello,

 I have been diagnosing for the past 3 days an issue with what I thought was an FSUIPC issue..I deleted/removed all my third party add-ons to try and narrow down the problem. It follows.

I filed a flight plane in the 777 and also the 747-400 (legacy) from KBOS-EGLL via CELTK->FRILL->KANNI->RAFIN-> etc.

After climbing to a crz level of 350, all seems steady and well until I get about 11 miles west of KANNI. At that time, the plane either starts climbing  or descending slightly. I then try to disconnect the AP and re-engage. The place will not respond.

Also, if I try to use manual controls, only the ailerons respond but the plane will not roll. Neither do the rudder no elevators respond to manual yoke movement. When I removed the FSUIPC from the dll.xml file, then the plane works fine and maintains AP control.

I put the FSUIPC back in and restarted the computer, FSX, and flight. Problem re-appears.

I have tried this same flight and route with FSUIPC installed with non-PDMG aircraft and they work fine.

 

Jim

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4 hours ago, jwyman said:

I put the FSUIPC back in and restarted the computer, FSX, and flight. Problem re-appears.

So you found where the problem lies.

4 hours ago, jwyman said:

I have tried this same flight and route with FSUIPC installed with non-PDMG aircraft and they work fine.

What non-PMDG aircraft, though. Keep in mind that we do a ton of custom things with the sim to get it to behave how we need it to in order to simulate the things we need to simulate. Things getting in between the sim and the plane (FSUIPC's literal job), when configured improperly, can cause issues.

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Posted (edited)

Well I thought it was FSUIPC.. I have been chatting with Pete Dowson about it.... He has reached the conclusion that it's not FSUIPC. I do not do any key/button mapping with it. It is only installed for ASN to function.

I have tried this with the Aerosoft A321 series and it works fine with FSUIPC installed. What is strange is that i have had this setup for many months with no issues with the 777 or the 747-400..I have re-calibrated the Saitek X52 yoke and throttle.

When I chat with  Pete again, i want to ask him if I need to do anything to configure FSUIPC for use with ASN only...

 

Jim

Edited by jwyman

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1 hour ago, jwyman said:

It is only installed for ASN to function.

This isn't required. Why are you using it for this?

Either way, scientific method rules, here:

No FSUIPC - problem goes away.
FSUIPC - problem appears.

The solution in the outcome is always found in the change in the variable.

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Posted (edited)

Unfortunately there is another variable....PDMG and non-PDMG aircraft...

I understood that FSUIPC IS needed for ASN to function properly...

 

Sounds like no one is willing to offer solutions to a problem , no matter who's product is at risk...

 

Jim

Edited by jwyman

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11 hours ago, jwyman said:

I understood that FSUIPC IS needed for ASN to function properly...

Definitely not.

I only installed FSUIPC last week in order to test something (vPilot things). It caused a number of issues (to include the sim not loading when I updated the sim), regardless of aircraft. Reinstalling FSUIPC solved it, but the program itself can cause numerous issues.

11 hours ago, jwyman said:

Sounds like no one is willing to offer solutions to a problem , no matter who's product is at risk...

The problem is that FSUIPC, as a program, is the software equivalent of messing with your hardware: de-lidding your CPU, putting custom water blocks on your GPUs, overclocking your RAM, and so on. To a car, it would be like hacking into your car's software to make the tune more aggressive. Both things give you a ton of control, but they also usually remove a lot of the protections that keep things predictable and working. The problem in these computer and car scenarios is those modders expect that things can go wrong when they mod - there's a literal understanding that you're taking a risk.

With FSUIPC, people have this odd expectation that this program - that essentially takes root control of anything in and out of the sim, down to the memory address - is just gonna make things work. If you configure it correctly, then yeah, it'll work correctly; but if you don't properly keep it in check, it can cause issues, as you're seeing. It is a powerful program, with lots of cool tools, but unless you know how to use the tools, you're essentially jamming an expert-mode tool into your sim and hoping it doesn't screw things up.

There are a number of people out there who have configured FSUIPC to work properly and still use our stuff, so, again...yeah, sure, there is another variable in PMDG v non-PMDG, but the stats don't support that argument.

 

So, the reality is that it isn't a matter of "nobody's willing to offer solutions." I have: the solution is that FSUIPC on your machine is a problem - fix or remove it. It's not my product, though, and it's not my hardware config, and in reality, you don't need the program. It's outside of my scope to help set up something that is neither something I use, nor something I created/wrote/developed. Moreover, I don't know what you're trying to do, or have attached to your computer. All variables affecting things.

I get that it's frustrating to be in the middle here, but again - you don't need it for ASN (at all - local, networked, or otherwise). Even their support forum notes that FSUIPC can (and has) caused issues with their program too. If set up properly, it's great. In the wrong hands, though, it'll cause issues.

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Seeing that both sides are pointing fingers at each other essentially, yes, it is frustrating that no one has really asked for any kind of log, setup information, etc.

To make a blanket statement that the "other" product is at fault causes suspicions to say the least and a little anger...

Back to the topic at hand....

What has me confused is that both my PMDG 777 and 747 aircraft along with FSUIPC and a hosts of other add-ons have been working for years...

Now for some reason, something has/got changed causing issues....

Granted I had FSUIPC installed for many years for one reason or another...It was an assumption that "something/someone" needed it installed for their product to work correctly.

IF FSUIPC is not needed for anything, I will remove it and move on....

I do thank you for the extended explanation of FSUIPC......

 

Jim

 

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UPDATE:

 

I need to FSUIPC for the VA i fly for. They require it for their ACARS unit.....

 

JIm

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5 minutes ago, jwyman said:

I need to FSUIPC for the VA i fly for. They require it for their ACARS unit.....

I use FSUIPC for numerous things on my sim without any issues.  Make sure it is updated.  

How does it fly without the autopilot?  

Another possible problem is  Rex 4/SkyForce/ASN may not play well together.

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Thanks BlueStar!

I use REx Sky Force , ASN together for quite some time with no issues. Now i did update the latest tech release of REX SF3D about a week ago....

What is the latest FSUIPC version for FSX? I will need to see if i have it installed.

 

Jim

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1 hour ago, jwyman said:

What is the latest FSUIPC version for FSX? I will need to see if i have it installed.

You might try uninstalling ACARS and FSUIPC  and see what happens.   If all is OK, then try reinstalling FSUIPC making sure that you have downloaded and installed the latest version.  If the problem returns, delete the FSUIPC config file and let it rebuild, then try it.  If all is OK, then try reinstalling ACARS again.   It's not unheard of for a VA to run some stuff through ACARS that may not agree with some PCs.

Like I said earlier I just don't have any problems with FSUIPC other than those that were self induced. ROFL

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While testing this several days ago, i removed FSUIPC from the DLL file and the 777 had no issues while at cruise. I then reloaded the FSUIPC module in and restarted the sim... Problem returned...I am using the "FREE"  version of FSUIPC....

 

Jim

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Not that this will give you a solution, but I am using FSUIPC to calibrate and for control assignments with the T7 and I have no issues whatsoever.  I'm using the pay version, so there's that little difference, but hope this at least gives you some ideas.

 

Richard Bansa

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Well I just tried a flight from LAX to EGLL in a 777. I re-arranged the DLL file to start FSUIPC first then place the ASN as_bstrp file at the end...

I was able to fly for about 5 hours with no issue until suddenly the 777 pitched up and lost speed. AP wouldn't work nor the manual flight controls. It's like i lost all control of the aircraft...

One thing that was very strange is that this happen at about the same longitudinal point as the KBOS-EGLL flight i did the other day,. This just took longer. Flying over the US seems ok until i reach ther Canadian regions....

This makes this plane useless to fly now along with the 747

Jim

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1 hour ago, jwyman said:

I was able to fly for about 5 hours with no issue until suddenly the 777 pitched up and lost speed. AP wouldn't work nor the manual flight controls. It's like i lost all control of the aircraft...

One thing that was very strange is that this happen at about the same longitudinal point as the KBOS-EGLL flight i did the other day,. This just took longer. Flying over the US seems ok until i reach ther Canadian regions....

What version is the Ops Center reporting you're on? How was your VAS use?

The order of loading is really inconsequential, by the way.

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11 hours ago, jwyman said:

This makes this plane useless to fly now along with the 747

Have you tried a flight without ACARS installed? 

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11 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

What version is the Ops Center reporting you're on? How was your VAS use?

The order of loading is really inconsequential, by the way.

Ops Center? Not sure what this is. Pardon my ignorance....

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11 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

What version is the Ops Center reporting you're on? How was your VAS use?

The order of loading is really inconsequential, by the way.

Ops Center? Not sure what this is. Pardon my ignorance....

VAS is very good...Using DX10 Fixer...

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1 hour ago, Bluestar said:

Have you tried a flight without ACARS installed? 

No, not yet.....

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1 hour ago, jwyman said:

Ops Center? Not sure what this is. Pardon my ignorance....

Start > All Programs/Apps > PMDG Simulations > Operations Center

When it opens, if there is a message at the top right that you need to update, make sure to update.

1 hour ago, jwyman said:

VAS is very good...Using DX10 Fixer...

What are you using to determine that it is "good?" DX10 fixer lowers VAS use, but it does not protect you from VAS overruns.

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I was gett VAS/OOM errors last year. I enable the readout of VAS usage in FSUIPC... After updating to DX10 Fixer, i did not have any more erros with VAS/OOM issues. I would get them every flight on all aircraft.

 

Yes, i use the Ops Center to update.. Nothing is showing need of update...

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Case Closed..... I re-installed FSX and all add-ons from scratch... 777 is working fine with no issues.....

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