Daedalus

In search of Kai Tak historic flights

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Posted (edited)

Hi all,

Patiently awaiting for their Las Vegas scenery, I bought the only FlyTampa scenery I was missing: Kai Tak. What an amazing job FlytTampa has done, considering it was released 10 years ago! To my pleasant surprise, Navigraph is supporting since November the old procedures, so I can make a nice route in PFPX ! :)) 

The only thing I am missing, to recreate the historic flights, is real world flights. I am referring to flight numbers, aircraft types and if possible timetables.

I joined the Historic Airlines Group, in the hope that I will find them there, but unfortunately I could find only one listed flight, from Tokyo.

 If anyone has a link of flights to Kai Tak, I would be very glad to know. 🙂 
 

20 years since its closure, Kai Tak can still offer an amazing approach experience in our simulators.

Edited by Daedalus

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How about Lufthansa 736 with the Boeing 747-400.

 

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1 hour ago, Daedalus said:

 If anyone has a link of flights to Kai Tak, I would be very glad to know.

There are some websites that have copies of old flight schedules for various airlines.  I have seen some of the old CPA schedules that included Kai Tak.  This link maybe  a source for you - http://www.timetableimages.com/ 

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I've had these for years and have no idea who the original author(s) are. But, all credit to them for giving us these tutorials. I thought I'd re-post them here in the hope someone else can enjoy flying the IGS "the right way" as much as I have. And, if you've never done that approach before, the advice to try it first in the C172 is a really good idea..........Doug

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Remove cabin staff from knee. Approaching from over the South China Sea, set your NAV1 radio to Cheung Chau VOR (CH VOR, 112.30) or Tathong Point (TH VOR, 115.50) to the east of it if you can't pick up CH VOR immediately. When approaching 100 DME (miles from) CH VOR
descend to FL 150 (15000 ft). When passing 30 DME CH reduce your speed to 250 knots and descend to 8000 ft. After passing CH VOR fly on heading 270 or R-270 at 6000 ft. Tune your ADF to 268 SL (SHA LO WAN) and proceed to GOLF, which is at D7 CH on the 270 CH VOR radial (7 miles west of Cheung Chau) and should show as such on your NAV1 DME readout. Your cross check is that the ADF arrow should now point due north (90° to your right). Descend to 4500 ft, turning right heading 045 to pass over the 268 SL NDB (nondirectional radio beacon). Now tune your NAV1 to intercept the Kai Tak IGS localiser (IGS/DME 111.90 KL - note also that the ILS/DME is 109.90 IHK but use the IGS). Establish your 088 course on the IGS localiser, follow the glide path and reduce to normal approach speed for landing on R13 (which varies according to your aircraft - see specific documentation with each model). Final approach is visual and is the infamous bit. Turn right 47° towards runway (which lies 135°) at the moment of intercepting MM (the audible Middle Marker alarm and panel light - big jets such as the B747 and A340 must turn 2-3 seconds before MM). If using autopilot APR mode (auto-descent on the glide slope) remember to switch off the autopilot before turning otherwise you'll suffer "Loss Of Terrain CLR", for which read that you'll modify Kowloon Tsai extensively by remaining on the IGS. Use the checkerboard to aid your visual approach - if you can't see it, either you're in Schenzen or you should go round again. If landing at night, you'll find the curved approach lights useful as well as pretty. Flare the ship for landing. Kill throttles, take the threshold at no less than 50 ft. if you don't want to give the barman in the Aero Club a haircut. If you feel a gentle bump and hear the wheels touch, feel pleased with yourself. If your screen goes AWOL and your computer makes a noise like an epileptic goat in a biscuit tin, you blew it. Take up fishing, since you're in the water anyway. 

Things to watch out for: very large lumps of terrain, Hong Kong viz, wind-shear and turbulence, birds, lack of ATC (you're on your own) and, of course, the runway. Things to do on the way down: extend flaps, sllooowww the ship but don't stall her, lower landing gear (important, that one), set autobrake and arm spoilers (as available, otherwise prepare to work hard on arrival as you've no co-pilot) and work out how to engage reverse thrust on touchdown (it's the F2 key, folks ... not applicable to 'Betsy' and friends ...). All this is handy if you don't want to take a bath, particularly in the larger jets. 

After landing, take the high speed taxiway A11 (up to 60 knots) back to the Terminal and that wonderful Airport Bar. Don't forget to savour the aroma of The Fragrant Harbour ... 

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How to Fly the Checkerboard Approach

Refer to the approach charts in this manual and study it carefully before taking up the challenge. It is highly recommended to read the fine print in the approach charts.  You may want to fly the approach with the Cessna first to get familiar with all the landmarks.

You can start all along the southern side of Hong Kong Island heading west towards Cheung Chao Island VOR and fly the full approach as described in the charts, or start flying at the Outer Marker heading 088 degrees if you are a more impatient pilot.

When you start the long way, pass the CH VOR at 8,000 feet at 180 - 200 knots,  then turn in radial 270 outbound and fly this course, descending to 6,000 feet. At the GOLF intersection (7.0 DME), turn directly towards SL NDB and to a 45 degrees heading after passing SL if your plane allows an airspeed below 180 knots at the present configuration. If your plane requires the airspeed to be higher than 180 knots ( as will be the case with the B747), make a lazy turn to a heading of 45 degrees after passing the GOLF intersection. Start descending to 4,500 feet.

In either case, you will intercept the IGS 13 at the northern shore of Lantao Island at 4,500 feet and a heading of 45 degrees. Follow the 88 degrees localizer at 4,500 feet, and when intercepting the glide slope, start your descent to decision height and prepare for landing configuration, extend the landing gear and try to be fully stabilized before passing the Outer Marker. At 1,777 feet, you will pass the Outer Marker. The final checklist should be read no later than at the Marker.

After passing the Outer Marker, maintain good sink rate control, since high-rise buildings seem to want their rooftops get touched by your landing gear. You are now over Sham Shui Po, the most densely populated area of the world.

Soon, the checkerboard will fill the windscreen. Your altitude should be 675 feet and you should have reached your final approach speed when the DME reads 2.2. You should have acquired visual contact with the runway to your immediate right, or an immediate Missed Approach Procedure is mandatory. However, if everything looks good, you immediately start your right turn when the Middle Marker beeps. Depending on the weight of your plane or a tailwind, you may start turning a second earlier. The margin for error is incredibly small. When you miss the right moment to initiate the turn by more then a second or two, you will probably have to abandon the approach and follow the missed approach procedure. 

However, with enough skill, you will be able to line up with the runway, helped by the approach lights and the PAPIS brightly visible by the runway’s sides. Mind your altitude, but do not break the sink rate. When you come down too early, the results would be disastrous ( at least you would touch down at the sterile displaced threshold only used for take offs). If you come in too high, think twice whether you really want to touch down - remember, after 10,930 feet, the runway inevitably ends, and there is nearly no overrun before your plane plunges into the sea.

If everything goes well, you will be level again when over flying the runway threshold at a heading of 135 degrees and touch down at the huge TDZ markers, aided by the PAPIS. Reverse thrust, apply breaking, and leave the runway using the high speed turn-off, then taxi at 315 degrees to the Main Terminal building, using the BOLDS Optical Lens Docking System to line up with the passenger bridges (when you pilot a B747, DC 10 or MD11 - B777 can use the distance markers for the B747 as well).

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Posted (edited)

Thank you very much guys. Kevin, good suggestion. I have to fly that one. Enjoyable to watch video !

 Wilhelm, that's excellent, I will dig into it to find some routes 🙂 Thank you!

W2DR, thank you so much for this invaluable source of information !!! It think that's the ultimate challenge an airliner pilot can get, and good skills are necessary, to the sim pilot too. I will save this post and certainly try this, word by word. Super exciting and nervous at the same time 🙂 Thanks again!

Edited by Daedalus

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Posted (edited)

I found this amazing site (remembered I had also used to find flights for historic MD82 flights):

https://airline-memorabilia.blogspot.com/

I will try to make a document table, listing flights to Kai Tak, indicating airline, flight number, year and times, and share it when I have gathered a good number. : )

Edited by Daedalus

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5 hours ago, Daedalus said:

Thank you very much guys. Kevin, good suggestion. I have to fly that one. Enjoyable to watch video !

 Wilhelm, that's excellent, I will dig into it to find some routes 🙂 Thank you!

W2DR, thank you so much for this invaluable source of information !!! It think that's the ultimate challenge an airliner pilot can get, and good skills are necessary, to the sim pilot too. I will save this post and certainly try this, word by word. Super exciting and nervous at the same time 🙂 Thanks again!

Enjoy it. I've been lucky enough to experience that approach in RL. It was in a window seat on the starboard side.....what a sight. I played golf for years with a fellow named Eddie Chrisman. He was in the left seat of a Northwest 747 from almost day one. He'd flown to Kai Tak more times than he could count. He taught me how to do that approach way back in the FS98 days. What a hoot.........Doug

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52 minutes ago, W2DR said:

Enjoy it. I've been lucky enough to experience that approach in RL. It was in a window seat on the starboard side.....what a sight. I played golf for years with a fellow named Eddie Chrisman. He was in the left seat of a Northwest 747 from almost day one. He'd flown to Kai Tak more times than he could count. He taught me how to do that approach way back in the FS98 days. What a hoot.........Doug

Wow! You are so lucky to have experienced that and have such a friend! Amazing.. His and your input are so valuable and can't thank you enough. 

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14 hours ago, Daedalus said:

Hi all,

Patiently awaiting for their Las Vegas scenery, I bought the only FlyTampa scenery I was missing: Kai Tak. What an amazing job FlytTampa has done, considering it was released 10 years ago! To my pleasant surprise, Navigraph is supporting since November the old procedures, so I can make a nice route in PFPX ! :)) 

The only thing I am missing, to recreate the historic flights, is real world flights. I am referring to flight numbers, aircraft types and if possible timetables.

I joined the Historic Airlines Group, in the hope that I will find them there, but unfortunately I could find only one listed flight, from Tokyo.

 If anyone has a link of flights to Kai Tak, I would be very glad to know. 🙂 
 

20 years since its closure, Kai Tak can still offer an amazing approach experience in our simulators.

This may or may not be of interest to you but I have just done up a list which might help you. I got tired of having to search for real world routes so I decided to compile a list so that I could always pick something that was current.

It is in the library here - https://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=747+Passenger+Routes&CatID=miscmisc&Go=Search
This list includes current 747 operators and routes as of May 2018 - you could easily substitute flights to/from VHHH to VHHX.

Hope it helps.

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Thanks you Johny. Very nice work, for sure I'm going to have a look at it. I'm mostly interested for historical flights to VHHX as I like to be as realistic as possible 🙂

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