I don't think DLSS will work on present titles that have not been optimised for DLSS and will included aircraft and scenery, and if LM or LR do go down that route goodbye windows 7 for some users as minimum specs will be windows 10, and DX12.   

Edited August 26, 20187 yr by rjfry

1 hour ago, kevinfirth said:

Maybe IM just being dumb, but why would aircraft and scenery developers need to know or worry about it? :S

Surely the DLSS 'magic' is at the hardware rendering point and nothing to do with any add-on?  LM I understand as apparently any application can be DLSS enabled by sending the full code to Nvidia (I would have thought LM would have issues with that but it still doesn't impact on add-on devs….)

Well the RTX part is all about lighting and I would think that it would impact nearly everything in the sim. That is really my point....no one seems to know. That is why I am wondering how long it may be before the sims have that tech. As for the DLSS, that is another question all together. I don't recall Nvidia ever changing anything for the Flight Sim community in all the years I have been around it. You need to re-read my original post. I am not here to argue about it....I am just looking for answers from some of the pro's here

4 minutes ago, rjfry said:

I don't think DLSS will work on present titles that have not been optimised for DLSS and will included aircraft and scenery, and if LM or LR do go down that route goodbye windows 7 for some users as minimum specs will be windows 10, and DX12.   

Good point. That will be a big ole bag of worms for simmers also. We need to keep a good supply of beer and popcorn on hand for that argument.LOL!

4 hours ago, w6kd said:

There's less (or even no) need for AA on screens with smaller pixels relative to the viewing distance.  When the pixel size is below the visual acuity threshold--the point where the angular width of an individual pixel is wide enough that your eyes can resolve it, then use of AA to smooth the jaggies out is pointless, as you can't see them anyway.  So a small (say 32") 4K monitor viewed at 36" eye-to-screen distance may need no AA at all, where a 65" 4K monitor at the same distance would need AA, since the pixels on the larger screen are large enough for the eye to resolve individually (and therefore so are the jaggies formed by those individually-visible pixels as well).  Similarly, a 20" 1920x1080 HD display may need little to no AA for the same reasons.

Regards

 

Thank you sir, that makes good sense! So the smoothest picture is a formula best derived with the proper use of a tape measure and a chair with wheels. 

Kind regards,

Spirit Flyer (Stephen)

7 hours ago, rjfry said:

I don't think DLSS will work on present titles that have not been optimised for DLSS and will included aircraft and scenery, and if LM or LR do go down that route goodbye windows 7 for some users as minimum specs will be windows 10, and DX12.   

Laminar Research currently uses OpenGL and will be updating soon the engine to use Vulkan, both OpenGL and Vulkan run fine on Windows 7, so you shouldn´t be forced to use Windows 10. The same is true for Aerofly FS2.

Aerofly has greater chances to be the first FSim to receive this tech, followed by X-Plane. Regarding P3D, as far as I know, they didn´t release any info about updating their engine to use DX12. Sure they could be in the works in secret.

Edited August 27, 20187 yr by ca_metal

3 hours ago, ca_metal said:

Laminar Research currently uses OpenGL and will be updating soon the engine to use Vulkan, both OpenGL and Vulkan run fine on Windows 7, so you shouldn´t be forced to use Windows 10. The same is true for Aerofly FS2.

Aerofly has greater chances to be the first FSim to receive this tech, followed by X-Plane. Regarding P3D, as far as I know, they didn´t release any info about updating their engine to use DX12. Sure they could be in the works in secret.

I get what you are saying but the new GPU`s will be optimised to run on windows 10 DX12, Microsoft and Nvidia have been working on this for a long time and support for the cards will be in windows 10 updates, W7 security updates only till end of life about 18months.

And to use the tech you will need windows 10.

Edited August 27, 20187 yr by rjfry

This is about X-Plane but it starts to give some idea of what is required before the magic dust of the RTX kind appears in flight sims. Hint: we want be using it over the Christmas Holidays. LOL!

I desperately want to see ray tracing in P3D, along with an update to PBR.  If it can happen on v.4 all the better.  DLSS looks very nice as well, and should be trivial to implement.  Here's to hoping LM releases updates in the next few months to support any or all of the above.  

14 hours ago, rjfry said:

I get what you are saying but the new GPU`s will be optimised to run on windows 10 DX12, Microsoft and Nvidia have been working on this for a long time and support for the cards will be in windows 10 updates, W7 security updates only till end of life about 18months.

And to use the tech you will need windows 10.

No you won't, that's what I'm saying. Games and, in our case, sims using Vulkan won't need Windows 10 to run the ray-tracing tech. On the other hand, games/sims using DirectX, will need DirectX 12, and it only runs on Windows 10. 

The guys developing Vulkan will update it  soon to implement raytracing on it. And as I said before, Vulkan runs on Windows 7.

2 hours ago, ca_metal said:

The guys developing Vulkan will update it  soon

AMD and nVidia that are adding the extensions to Vulkan 1.1 API.  The downside is that there are currently no games and/or sims setup to use Vulkan 1.1 with ray tracing extensions ... conversely there ARE games/sims currently using DX12 DXR API that will release (Shadow of Tomb Raider, Assetto-Corsa racing sim) just before the nVidia 20xx series GPUs arrive (hence nVidia driver updates that were released today 8/27/2018).

I don't know which Vulkan API version will be used in XP11 ... I think it was XP 11.30 target due end of 2018 or early 2019.  I haven't heard LR mention anything about ray tracing or using the Vulkan 1.1 API with ray tracing extensions?

I don't think Windows 10 will be much of a road block by the time ray tracing gets implemented, a non-issue for the majority IMHO.  Windows 7 is 41.2% and Windows 10 is 41.4% of the Windows market share with Win7 steady declining and Win10 steady increasing ... fairly normal considering Windows 7 will stop getting security patch support 1/1/2020 so expect to see a large Win7 exodus to Win10.

But you're correct Vulkan 1.1 with ray tracing extensions "should" run on Win7 (maybe, don't know until it happens).

Cheers, Rob.

6 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

AMD and nVidia that are adding the extensions to Vulkan 1.1 API.  The downside is that there are currently no games and/or sims setup to use Vulkan 1.1 with ray tracing extensions ... conversely there ARE games/sims currently using DX12 DXR API that will release (Shadow of Tomb Raider, Assetto-Corsa racing sim) just before the nVidia 20xx series GPUs arrive (hence nVidia driver updates that were released today 8/27/2018).

I don't know which Vulkan API version will be used in XP11 ... I think it was XP 11.30 target due end of 2018 or early 2019.  I haven't heard LR mention anything about ray tracing or using the Vulkan 1.1 API with ray tracing extensions?

I don't think Windows 10 will be much of a road block by the time ray tracing gets implemented, a non-issue for the majority IMHO.  Windows 7 is 41.2% and Windows 10 is 41.4% of the Windows market share with Win7 steady declining and Win10 steady increasing ... fairly normal considering Windows 7 will stop getting security patch support 1/1/2020 so expect to see a large Win7 exodus to Win10.

But you're correct Vulkan 1.1 with ray tracing extensions "should" run on Win7 (maybe, don't know until it happens).

Cheers, Rob.

Actually there´s at least one title using Vulkan + RTX: Enlisted

I don´t know if Ipacs plans to implement it, but they already have Vulkan running on Beta and they have a lot of headroom for that.

X-plane´s developers are aware of RTX, but their focus right now is to implement Vulkan, but RTX will come eventually, depending on the performance impact it will have in the sim.
You can read their first toughts here: https://developer.x-plane.com/2018/08/nvidia-rtx-ends-with-an-x-x-plane-starts-with-one-perfect-match/

I agree with rob by he time any RT or DLSS comes to flight sim W7 will be history we talking months not years 16.

Edited August 28, 20187 yr by rjfry

It has always been amazing to me that  FSX (and going back to MS days) as well as Prepar3d in modern days have always been the most complicated and complete "game" or "Simulator" around. In all that time it has never been done with new or cutting edge tech but always has just been sort of hobbled together and helped along by users and independent Developers. So far, every new guy on the block who has said we are going to change things and take Flight to the cutting edge have quickly learned some hard lessons and have fallen flat on their face. Even more amazing is that all of this has taken place in an enviornment full of individuals who almost refuse to accept progress. Windows 10 vs Windows 7 and FSX vs Prepar3d come to mind. Before you attack, I do understand why you hate Windows 10 ect. and I don't blame you in the least. I also stayed with Windows 7 a long time. I just got tired of falling on my sword and decided to move on. Some of these arguments sometimes go on way to long but if nothing else we simmers are hard headed and opinionated and in the end I think that is why this hobby is as strong as it is today. So I say, throw some more Coal into the back of that windows 7 calculator, fire up FSX version ? and lets keep stumbling forward and RTX be dammed!! LOL

9 hours ago, ca_metal said:

Actually there´s at least one title using Vulkan + RTX: Enlisted

I sure hope their in game sound is better that this LOL

 

15 hours ago, rjfry said:

I agree with rob by he time any RT or DLSS comes to flight sim W7 will be history we talking months not years 16.

I'm reminded of the story with the dozen or so DoDo birds, a watermelon and a cliff.

You remember the personal computer, right?:

Win7

Sim City ..er Windows Ten:

Win10