It may be too soon but I was wondering just how much Dev's know at this point about how hard it is going to be to implement this new Tech to P3D and add on scenery as well as aircraft. I am not looking for a release date LOL! It just seems like it would not be reasonable to expect any benefit other than the normal performance increases from one generation to the next in releases. My guess is that it may be at least 12 to 18 months before this new tech comes to the sims.  I would love to hear what the Dev's and experts think. Am I way off?? 

For 4K users, unless one is using a big screen TV, there is very little benefit to using any AA setting. But a mode of AA that has little performance penalty is always welcome.

3 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

For 4K users, unless one is using a big screen TV, there is very little benefit to using any AA setting. But a mode of AA that has little performance penalty is always welcome.

Hi Jay,

Good to see you.

I don't necessarily disagree, but just don't understand the point. I have a Samsung 55 inch 4K curved smart TV that runs P3Dv4 with my GTX 1080 to near perfection with little fuss or high AA settings, something that (if my memory serves) was more challenging before such monsters.

Why is there less need for AA on smaller screens with lesser resolutions like a 1920 x 1080? I don't get it.

Thanks for the help.

Spirit Flyer

Stephen

PS: The new tech isn't really AA, as such, anyway is it? Isn't it a bit more like magic fairy pixie dust or something? 

Edited August 26, 20187 yr by SpiritFlyer
Tried to be less provocative and confrontational. Did it work?

With DLSS you turn AA off completely.  DLSS does require application/developer support, the good news is that adding support is relatively easy.

With AA off and DLSS support you should see about 85% FPS improvement and very high quality AA.  This is with existing base games that get updated to support DLSS.

Cheers, Rob.

29 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

With DLSS you turn AA off completely.  DLSS does require application/developer support, the good news is that adding support is relatively easy. 

With AA off and DLSS support you should see about 85% FPS improvement and very high quality AA.  This is with existing base games that get updated to support DLSS.

Cheers, Rob.

Are you aware of any consideration within LM about whether to add DLSS support Rob?  I'm wondering whether it comes with any downside to an app developer and the nature of any will we/won't we debate that might need to happen?  On the face of it this seems like something that would be perfect for P3D?  I think I read that code has to be submitted to NVidia for the support to be added is that right - I wonder whether that would be a stumbling block for LM...?

Most of the titles in the Nvidia show will use DLSS when released, as for flight sim LM or LR if they go down that path how will this affect addon developers it could break compatibility, you would need all developers on broad, for that reason I don't see it happening any time soon, my be the next refresh and by then Nvidia may have the 7nm chip GPU out. 

I think Nvidia will be releasing the SDK for developer it was mentioned at the show. 

PS check out Gamers Nexus YouTube vid on tomshardware statement about go out and buy 2080 now don't wait, contradicting one of his own reviewers.

 

Edited August 26, 20187 yr by rjfry

3 hours ago, rjfry said:

PS check out Gamers Nexus YouTube vid on tomshardware statement about go out and buy 2080 now don't wait, contradicting one of his own reviewers.

That's a pretty funny review of the review I guess you would say. Just looking around the net, it appears that a lot of folks are starting to wave the BS Flag on the crap that Nvidia to pumping out. I know that part of the fun for some folks is trying new stuff. Nothing at all wrong with that, But for the other 99% of us? I have yet to see one reason based on a known fact why any one of us should be in a hurry to order the magic dust maker until we at least know this new tech is even going to get off the ground. It may be ok if you play Battle Do DA release #98A ver 6.... but in the Flight Sim world we are the very last to see new Tech. Yes, sounds like Tomshardware has gone off the tracks a bit. That is no reasons for us to do the same.

10 hours ago, SpiritFlyer said:

Why is there less need for AA on smaller screens with lesser resolutions like a 1920 x 1080? I don't get it.

There really isn't a need, except some people sit too close to a big screen TV and see all the warts (jaggies).

2 hours ago, shivers9 said:

That's a pretty funny review of the review I guess you would say. Just looking around the net, it appears that a lot of folks are starting to wave the BS Flag on the crap that Nvidia to pumping out. I know that part of the fun for some folks is trying new stuff. Nothing at all wrong with that, But for the other 99% of us? I have yet to see one reason based on a known fact why any one of us should be in a hurry to order the magic dust maker until we at least know this new tech is even going to get off the ground. It may be ok if you play Battle Do DA release #98A ver 6.... but in the Flight Sim world we are the very last to see new Tech. Yes, sounds like Tomshardware has gone off the tracks a bit. That is no reasons for us to do the same.

Yes it`s funny that tomshardware like others were saying wait till some real test results are out, then the editor later comes out and says buy buy buy now don't wait, have the green team been in touch telling them that review sample may be delayed. 

If a technique isn't just drawing the pixels as modeled, then it is using some form of interpolation to fool the human eye. If it walks llike AA and quacks like AA then it is just another interpolation technique.

It all kind of makes one question Nvidia's motives with that dog and pony show and the big chart that they had. So far, just a lot of smoke and mirrors. Are we about to see another "experimental version" like the old DX10 checkbox in FSX? Rob is hopeful so we shall see in a few weeks. I do hope he is right. It does give me pause to see that no Dev's are chatting about this new stuff. It could be NDA or were they just kind of left in the dark?

1 hour ago, shivers9 said:

It does give me pause to see that no Dev's are chatting about this new stuff. It could be NDA or were they just kind of left in the dark?

Which devs do you mean?

36 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

Which devs do you mean?

Well it affects LM, Scenery, and Aircraft as I mentioned in the first post of this thread. Same goes for all the Sims. So far it seems we have a new direction for graphics but as far as I have seen at this point, no one seems to know much about it or how it is going to be used in flight sim. The only proof of concept that we have seen is a big green graphic the shows a bunch of numbers that Nvidia pulled out of the air with no baseline to compare them to. We don't even know if the 2080TI will be better than a 1080TI It is kind of like the US is now planning to go to Mars but we don't even have a vehicle to get to the space station at this point. Hard to get excited over that!

Edited August 26, 20187 yr by shivers9

13 hours ago, SpiritFlyer said:

I don't necessarily disagree, but just don't understand the point. I have a Samsung 55 inch 4K curved smart TV that runs P3Dv4 with my GTX 1080 to near perfection with little fuss or high AA settings, something that (if my memory serves) was more challenging before such monsters.

Why is there less need for AA on smaller screens with lesser resolutions like a 1920 x 1080? I don't get it.

There's less (or even no) need for AA on screens with smaller pixels relative to the viewing distance.  When the pixel size is below the visual acuity threshold--the point where the angular width of an individual pixel is wide enough that your eyes can resolve it, then use of AA to smooth the jaggies out is pointless, as you can't see them anyway.  So a small (say 32") 4K monitor viewed at 36" eye-to-screen distance may need no AA at all, where a 65" 4K monitor at the same distance would need AA, since the pixels on the larger screen are large enough for the eye to resolve individually (and therefore so are the jaggies formed by those individually-visible pixels as well).  Similarly, a 20" 1920x1080 HD display may need little to no AA for the same reasons.

Regards

 

1 hour ago, shivers9 said:

Well it affects LM, Scenery, and Aircraft

Maybe IM just being dumb, but why would aircraft and scenery developers need to know or worry about it? :S

Surely the DLSS 'magic' is at the hardware rendering point and nothing to do with any add-on?  LM I understand as apparently any application can be DLSS enabled by sending the full code to Nvidia (I would have thought LM would have issues with that but it still doesn't impact on add-on devs….)