MCE & PF3

[Fighter Guy 11]

RALF9636,

Thanks for the tips. I just completed another successful PF3/MCE integrated flight with no problems except those that were self induced😁.

Thanks again for all of your help. It is greatly appreciated.

 

Tony J

 

[Fighter Guy 11]

Hi to the MCE Devs and PF3 Users,

First let me start by saying how much this program has greatly enhanced my flying in FSX. Definitely a game changer. Can't fly without it. I also use PF3 and the integration between that program and MCE seems pretty seamless for me with a couple of exceptions.

My primary problem is that for the life of me I cannot get a climb or descent to operate consistently when using my voice. I thought I had it figured out with RALF9636's help, but the problem has creeped its ugly little head back into my cockpit.

Here is what happens: I'm level at a cruising altitude of,lets say 16000. I want to climb to FL240. If using PF3 only, I press the climb hotkey and the #8, and I get a response from PF3 ATC saying 
"roger <call sign> climb FL240" 

When using MCE "and" PF3, and I ask the FO, "request FL240" he responds and says "control or center, <call sign> would like higher altitude FL240" or other variation and the PF3 ATC responds "roger <call sign> climb to FL240".

However when I request FL240 using voice and saying exactly the same phrasing that the FO used, the response I get from ATC is "roger <call sign> maintain 16 thousand" (hotkey +0). I have tried all the different keyword variations, and request variations, but to no avail. I flew two 400 mile legs just testing different ways of requesting a climb, but all I get is "roger <call sign> maintain 16 thousand". Descents seem to be a little better, but not consistent. I will usually receive the descent but most of time I'm given the wrong altitude. If I request climb or descent due to clouds or turbulence, I do not have any problems.  Mind you whatever I ask the FO to do the proper hotkey seems to be sent. The problem is only when I make a request by voice.

I have tried re-training my mic, used a different mic, I've created a new speech profile, used different hotkeys, changed the speed rate of my keyboard, accomplished all of the voice training in a quiet setting and have installed the latest MCE version, but with no success.

All of the other commands between MCE and PF3 seem to work with the some minor problems when flying from an uncontrolled airport. These are,

1. When using FSS, None of the "request a particular service from FSS as stated in the MCE documentation for PF3/PFE seem to work for me.(ie saying radio, advisory, service etc). The only way I have been able to contact FSS is by saying "clearance delivery or Unicom <call sign> request IFR clearance" and that seems to wake them up. 

2. Also when requesting different services from FSS, (having to say "clearance delivery or Unicom") the wrong hotkeys seem to get sent. For example I request airport advisories (hotkey 7), and I received a response that they will extend my flight plan (hotkey 2). When asking for weather advisories, (hotkey 3), MCE tries to request a different runway.

I guess my question is, what else can I do to ensure that the correct hotkeys are being sent or is there a way to further improve the voice recognition on my part. I remember earlier on when I first started using MCE with the native ATC, I had a similar problem, (climbs and descents not working properly) that was fixed in a later version. Is there a debug log I can look at to see if the correct hotkeys are being sent based on the statement being voiced?
 
My other question is what PF3 FSS/UNICOM/MULTICOM or IFR ATC commands should work and I expect to be answered by ATC voice?  Since there is no flash like the native FSX ATC how does one know what will be answered by ATC and what will not?

3. Lastly, I have a voxkey flow in which the FO turns the pitot heat on and off. He states "pitot heat on or pitot heat off". But in a checklist (not a flow) he only says "heat" on or off, as if he does not know how to say pitot. I've tried spelling it differently, like pete-toe  or other ways but he refuses to say it. What am I missing?  Any thoughts or help are welcomed and appreciated.

Sorry for the long post. I appreciate the hard work and support that you have put into this product. 

System INFO: WIN7, Intel i7 4790k, 4.0GHz, 16Gb RAM, GeForce 980.

 

Tony J

[RALF9636 1,969]

8 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

Hi to the MCE Devs and PF3 Users,

First let me start by saying how much this program has greatly enhanced my flying in FSX. Definitely a game changer. Can't fly without it. I also use PF3 and the integration between that program and MCE seems pretty seamless for me with a couple of exceptions.

My primary problem is that for the life of me I cannot get a climb or descent to operate consistently when using my voice. I thought I had it figured out with RALF9636's help, but the problem has creeped its ugly little head back into my cockpit.

Here is what happens: I'm level at a cruising altitude of,lets say 16000. I want to climb to FL240. If using PF3 only, I press the climb hotkey and the #8, and I get a response from PF3 ATC saying 
"roger <call sign> climb FL240" 

When using MCE "and" PF3, and I ask the FO, "request FL240" he responds and says "control or center, <call sign> would like higher altitude FL240" or other variation and the PF3 ATC responds "roger <call sign> climb to FL240".

However when I request FL240 using voice and saying exactly the same phrasing that the FO used, the response I get from ATC is "roger <call sign> maintain 16 thousand" (hotkey +0). I have tried all the different keyword variations, and request variations, but to no avail. I flew two 400 mile legs just testing different ways of requesting a climb, but all I get is "roger <call sign> maintain 16 thousand". Descents seem to be a little better, but not consistent. I will usually receive the descent but most of time I'm given the wrong altitude. If I request climb or descent due to clouds or turbulence, I do not have any problems.  Mind you whatever I ask the FO to do the proper hotkey seems to be sent. The problem is only when I make a request by voice.

I have tried re-training my mic, used a different mic, I've created a new speech profile, used different hotkeys, changed the speed rate of my keyboard, accomplished all of the voice training in a quiet setting and have installed the latest MCE version, but with no success.

All of the other commands between MCE and PF3 seem to work with the some minor problems when flying from an uncontrolled airport. These are,

1. When using FSS, None of the "request a particular service from FSS as stated in the MCE documentation for PF3/PFE seem to work for me.(ie saying radio, advisory, service etc). The only way I have been able to contact FSS is by saying "clearance delivery or Unicom <call sign> request IFR clearance" and that seems to wake them up. 

2. Also when requesting different services from FSS, (having to say "clearance delivery or Unicom") the wrong hotkeys seem to get sent. For example I request airport advisories (hotkey 7), and I received a response that they will extend my flight plan (hotkey 2). When asking for weather advisories, (hotkey 3), MCE tries to request a different runway.

I guess my question is, what else can I do to ensure that the correct hotkeys are being sent or is there a way to further improve the voice recognition on my part. I remember earlier on when I first started using MCE with the native ATC, I had a similar problem, (climbs and descents not working properly) that was fixed in a later version. Is there a debug log I can look at to see if the correct hotkeys are being sent based on the statement being voiced?
 
My other question is what PF3 FSS/UNICOM/MULTICOM or IFR ATC commands should work and I expect to be answered by ATC voice?  Since there is no flash like the native FSX ATC how does one know what will be answered by ATC and what will not?

3. Lastly, I have a voxkey flow in which the FO turns the pitot heat on and off. He states "pitot heat on or pitot heat off". But in a checklist (not a flow) he only says "heat" on or off, as if he does not know how to say pitot. I've tried spelling it differently, like pete-toe  or other ways but he refuses to say it. What am I missing?  Any thoughts or help are welcomed and appreciated.

Sorry for the long post. I appreciate the hard work and support that you have put into this product. 

System INFO: WIN7, Intel i7 4790k, 4.0GHz, 16Gb RAM, GeForce 980.

 

Tony J

 

There still seem to be some issues with the MCE-PF3 integration, mainly when it comes to rarely used features like uncontrolled airports or VFR flights. Also I always encountered more problems when talking to ATC directly than when having the FO talk to ATC. Recently I did not talk to ATC myself anymore because it just works better instructing the FO to do so. In particular your problem with the altitude change is familiar to me - I stopped bothering with it and just told my FO to make the request..

Also have a look here (still not completely solved):

 

I guess the problem is that there are only a handful of users who are using MCE with PF3 and even less who are flying VFR or into uncontrolled airports, so the MCE devs give these issues a very low priority (and focus more one the support for popular addon aircraft - which I totally understand).

 

A workaround I use for almost anything which does not work properly is to create a Voxkey command. That gives me total control and transparency which hotkey is sent by which phrase (it has to be used without pressing the PTT button of course and has to be independent from the actual callsign). Unfortunately that does not work with the altitude change request because that needs two keys to be pressed which seems not to be possible with Voxkey.

 

So my advice would be: stop bothering with things that do not work properly - it probably is not your fault. Just use the existing workarounds like asking the FO to make the request or creating a Voxkey command. And enjoy the great PF3-MCE interaction as far is it works fine - despite some remaining imperfections it always allows for a great simming experience!

 

 

 

[Fighter Guy 11]

RALF9636,

 

Thanks for replying. I've used the workaround you speak of and I understand where in the pecking order this problem is as far as priority goes. I guess the thing is, not everyone flies around in a shiny new 787 or 737, some of us do short hops in Barons and Cessnas and if the product says it is fully implemented with another program (with documentation of what is supposed to work) and someone finds a problem, I would hope someone would take the time to at least acknowledge that the problem actually exist. If not for yours and others efforts to get problems that you have found between the two programs resolved, I think you would see a lot more frustrations from others. The best part of MCE (IMHO) is the fact you can share the workload with your F/O, have him do all the work, or do it all yourself.  I can get past the issue of uncontrolled airports and VFR issues, but not being able to call for a climb or descent myself because the proper hotkeys are not being sent is frustrating, especially if they are correctly being sent when the F/O makes the request. (Probably something simple like a 1 instead of a 0 out of place in 2 million lines of code). 😄 

Again, it is absolutely amazing that the two programs work as well as they do together. It takes a lot of brain power to put all of these ones and zeros together and make it work as seamlessly as it does and all of their efforts are greatly appreciated. But it also takes the efforts and persistence of people like yourself, who when they see a problem that needs to be addressed they don't just settle, they try to see it through for the betterment of all.  

Thanks for the advice and Happy Simming,

 

Tony J

 

[FS++ 710]

2 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

not being able to call for a climb or descent myself because the proper hotkeys are not being sent is frustrating, especially if they are correctly being sent when the F/O makes the request.

 

This specific issue will be looked at.

As for uncontrolled airfields, it will always be a hit and miss and Ralf's advice is very sound.

For instance, in the real world you don't actually contact anyone via VHF. You'd rather call a phone number to state your intent to fly out of an airfield, so no proper standard ATC phraseology, therefore might as well have a command in <Voxkey> such as "Hello FFS, it's tony here, I intend to depart shortly" and get it to trigger whatever hotkety you deem appropriate. 😄

 

[Fighter Guy 11]

Thanks for looking into the problem. I appreciate the support. 

 

Tony J

[Fighter Guy 11]

On 3/9/2019 at 6:27 PM, Fighter Guy said:

3. Lastly, I have a voxkey flow in which the FO turns the pitot heat on and off. He states "pitot heat on or pitot heat off". But in a checklist (not a flow) he only says "heat" on or off, as if he does not know how to say pitot. I've tried spelling it differently, like pete-toe  or other ways but he refuses to say it. What am I missing?  Any thoughts or help are welcomed and appreciated.

Any explanation on this issue would be great also. Thanks again,

 

Tony J

[FS++ 710]

9 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

Any explanation on this issue would be great also. Thanks again,

 

Tony J

Something to do with recorded audio.

In checkist Try "pitot-heat" (with dash in the middle" or "probe heat".

 

[Fighter Guy 11]

To the MCE Devs,

It seems after updating to 2.7.9.1 and 2.7.9.2, my F/O seems to longer be reading the clearance log from PF3. I have active set to 1 in the PF3_MCE.ini file, but in "you have ATC mode" he does not respond to any ATC calls. If a call comes in even if I say "reply to ATC" he responds with a altimeter setting that I had requested at the beginning of the flight. He makes all requests, but no longer responds. I reinstalled to the default directory with UAC on but no change. 

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Tony J

[FS++ 710]

8 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

To the MCE Devs,

It seems after updating to 2.7.9.1 and 2.7.9.2, my F/O seems to longer be reading the clearance log from PF3. I have active set to 1 in the PF3_MCE.ini file, but in "you have ATC mode" he does not respond to any ATC calls. If a call comes in even if I say "reply to ATC" he responds with a altimeter setting that I had requested at the beginning of the flight. He makes all requests, but no longer responds. I reinstalled to the default directory with UAC on but no change. 

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Tony J

Nothing has cjhanged as far as the code sections that deal with PF3 ATC in the last couple of months.

This scenario is more likely to happen when the call-sign isn't picked up correctly.

For instance, Fo will only reply when he sees his own call-sign at the beginning of controller mesage and will ignore all others (assumed for other traffic).

Go to <ATC tab and see what call-sign is displayed there.

Compare tyhat with what comes out in the ATC window in PD or FSX

Do not use option ""Display voice set ID" (in PF3 settings)  as that adds another string at the beginning of the caption which FO relies on (be it onscreen or via the file).

[Fighter Guy 11]

Thanks for the response,

 

I flew today and the same thing occurred. I do not have the option ""Display voice set ID" set in PF3 and my callsign had not changed. From the moment I got in the cockpit, I said "you have the radio". I had the FO request clearance, (he did), but he did not respond to the clearance, nor did he set the altitude or the transponder. He does all requests, but does not respond to ATC. my call sign in FSX is the same as in PF3. The callsign in the PF3 clearance log shows Beech 60 Tango Juliet, which is what is displayed in the ATC menu of MCE. 

I failed to mention I was departing from an uncontrolled field. I received my clearance from flight service but the FO did not respond to the clearance. After takeoff I had the FO switch to departure, contact departure, but again even though he had the radios he did not respond to ATC. I asked him to reply to ATC, he then started reading the clearance from flight service, as if he did not know what phase of flight he was in. 

I did a quick flight immediately after the previous flight from my home airport where I have ground and tower facilities, and everything worked as it should. 

 

Tony J

 

[FS++ 710]

On 4/8/2019 at 6:44 PM, Fighter Guy said:

Thanks for the response,

 

I flew today and the same thing occurred. I do not have the option ""Display voice set ID" set in PF3 and my callsign had not changed. From the moment I got in the cockpit, I said "you have the radio". I had the FO request clearance, (he did), but he did not respond to the clearance, nor did he set the altitude or the transponder. He does all requests, but does not respond to ATC. my call sign in FSX is the same as in PF3. The callsign in the PF3 clearance log shows Beech 60 Tango Juliet, which is what is displayed in the ATC menu of MCE. 

I failed to mention I was departing from an uncontrolled field. I received my clearance from flight service but the FO did not respond to the clearance. After takeoff I had the FO switch to departure, contact departure, but again even though he had the radios he did not respond to ATC. I asked him to reply to ATC, he then started reading the clearance from flight service, as if he did not know what phase of flight he was in. 

I did a quick flight immediately after the previous flight from my home airport where I have ground and tower facilities, and everything worked as it should. 

 

Tony J

 

I guess, at uncontrolled airports, PF3 outputs some kind of captions that the Fo isn't trained to parse.

Could you suggest an airport, to see what PF3 comes up with.

[Fighter Guy 11]

Hey Gerald, 

Sorry late getting back to you. I did a couple of test flights from uncontrolled fields today. The first was a flight from MPBO-SKMR, the other was from CA57-Q79. Both flights were loaded with MCE ATC "accurate call sign checked and "copilot handle the radio if busy" unchecked. With PF3 active and in the cockpit, I said "you have the radios" the F/O (Clive) acknowledged. I then contacted FSS to request clearance. In both flights FSS responded, gave me my clearance and the F/O read back the clearance and set the altitude.

On the CA57-Q79 flight, the F/O maintained control of the radios. After takeoff I dialed in departure, requested he contact departure. The F/O contacted departure. At this time departure gave a squawk, but the F/O did not respond to that request and I had to answer ATC.  I asked him to "reply to ATC" and he replied with "roger squawk xxxx" but did not dial the squawk. The remainder of the flight the F/O responded to all ATC calls.

On the MPBO-SKMR flight, The F/O read back the clearance and set the altitude. After takeoff I dialed in departure, requested he contact departure. The F/O contacted departure. At this time departure gave a squawk, but the F/O did not respond to that request and I had to answer ATC. I asked him to "reply to ATC" and he replied with a wind check from an earlier request from FSS. For the remainder of the flight the F/O did not responded to any ATC calls.

Hope the info helps,

 

Tony J

 

 

[FS++ 710]

5 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

Hey Gerald, 

Sorry late getting back to you. I did a couple of test flights from uncontrolled fields today. The first was a flight from MPBO-SKMR, the other was from CA57-Q79. Both flights were loaded with MCE ATC "accurate call sign checked and "copilot handle the radio if busy" unchecked. With PF3 active and in the cockpit, I said "you have the radios" the F/O (Clive) acknowledged. I then contacted FSS to request clearance. In both flights FSS responded, gave me my clearance and the F/O read back the clearance and set the altitude.

On the CA57-Q79 flight, the F/O maintained control of the radios. After takeoff I dialed in departure, requested he contact departure. The F/O contacted departure. At this time departure gave a squawk, but the F/O did not respond to that request and I had to answer ATC.  I asked him to "reply to ATC" and he replied with "roger squawk xxxx" but did not dial the squawk. The remainder of the flight the F/O responded to all ATC calls.

On the MPBO-SKMR flight, The F/O read back the clearance and set the altitude. After takeoff I dialed in departure, requested he contact departure. The F/O contacted departure. At this time departure gave a squawk, but the F/O did not respond to that request and I had to answer ATC. I asked him to "reply to ATC" and he replied with a wind check from an earlier request from FSS. For the remainder of the flight the F/O did not responded to any ATC calls.

Hope the info helps,

 

Tony J

 

 

Ok, good hints here.

Next time you have a malfunction (FO not replying), before you shut down pf3, go to \pf3\logs\ folder and send "Clearance.log" to support.

The log is re-generated next time pf3 runs.

I suspect the FO needs to be trained on how to handle specific captions that asren't common on a typical flight..

 

[Fighter Guy 11]

Gerald,

I think I may have found the issue with F/O not replying to ATC in my case. It seems when using FSS and asking for a WX advisory (FSS gives winds aloft etc) even though the F/O has the radio, he gets confused by the info give from FSS and can't repeat it back because that info is not associated with the clearance log. After that he does not acknowledge any ATC requests, and if asked to "reply to ATC" he only sees the last thing he was able to respond to in this case he reads back the ATC clearance.  If I only request clearance from FSS (they only give altitude and departure freq) everything seems to work ok.  However after takeoff after dialing in departure, I requested he contact departure. The F/O contacted departure. At this time departure said "<call sign> squawk xxxx", but the F/O did not respond to that request and I had to answer ATC.  I asked him to "reply to ATC" and he replied with "roger squawk xxxx" but did not dial the squawk. The remainder of the flight the F/O responded to all ATC calls. 

The issue seems to be consistent regardless of type of flight, controlled or uncontrolled field. If you ask for a weather advisory from FSS (field advisory works ok, they only give wind and altimeter setting) the F/O stops responding to ATC.

Hope this helps,

 

Tony J

 

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Fighter Guy
Did not complete