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Hi,

I've recently purchased PF3, to go along with MCE and have a few questions regarding it's intergration with MCE. I started a new topic since there are over 19-20 forum pages 
about MCE and PF3 along with numerous sub topics and its becoming hard to decipher what is current and what is outdated. Since the PF3 manual 
and the MCE manual have not been updated with the most recent changes (MCE still showing info from PFE and PF3 now up to Ver 3.9), I was wondering if someone has a definitive setup for ease of integration between the two programs.

I also have some questions:

1. What hotkeys can I expect to work with MCE? I've been flying and it seems that some hotkeys fire when triggered by MCE, and some don't.
Are all ATC related hotkeys recognized by MCE? Is there a requirement to use the hotkeys at all when using MCE? 

2. Once connected to FSX, operating in "I have the aircraft mode" departing from a controlled airport, when I call for clearance,
Do I have to push the hotkey for initial check in? or do I just key my mic and call for clearance? 

3. When flying from an uncontrolled airport, in "I have the aircraft mode" and tuned to a FSS, Multicom or Unicom, to receive an IFR clearance, 
Do I call using "radio <call sign> request IFR clearance to XXXX)" or do I have to push the hotkey for initial check in? or do I just key my mic and call for clearance?

4. When receiving a clearance from FSS, should I get a response back from FSS or Multicom or Unicom, that the read back is correct? and if so what is the correct verbiage? 
 
5. Does MCE recognize the hotkeys that have been changed in PF3? or does it only use the default hotkeys from PF3?

6. When requesting a climb or descent from a cruise altitude using MCE or the relevant hotkey, I have yet to be issued a climb or descent, (PF3 manual says a 10% probability that you may be denied but its happened on every flight so far) I am always told to remain at the my current altitude, However when asking for a climb due to turbulence or clouds, I'm always approved. Is this normal? (Probably a question for the PF3 forum, but thought I'd ask).

7. Should MCE be started prior to PF3 or vice versa?

8. Which PF3 VCP modes actually work with MCE? I know MCE sets the pilot voice to None and VCP 0 so as to use their recorded voices but will MCE's copilot operate in VCP mode 1,2 & 3 also?


Thanks for all the hard work on 2 outstanding programs.


Tony 

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16 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

Hi,

I've recently purchased PF3, to go along with MCE and have a few questions regarding it's intergration with MCE. I started a new topic since there are over 19-20 forum pages 
about MCE and PF3 along with numerous sub topics and its becoming hard to decipher what is current and what is outdated. Since the PF3 manual 
and the MCE manual have not been updated with the most recent changes (MCE still showing info from PFE and PF3 now up to Ver 3.9), I was wondering if someone has a definitive setup for ease of integration between the two programs.

I also have some questions:

1. What hotkeys can I expect to work with MCE? I've been flying and it seems that some hotkeys fire when triggered by MCE, and some don't.
Are all ATC related hotkeys recognized by MCE? Is there a requirement to use the hotkeys at all when using MCE? 

Just about all hotkeys are recognized. Not sure about "request direct" or things like "toggle AI detection" but all the main ATC communication hotkeys work fine.

 

16 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

2. Once connected to FSX, operating in "I have the aircraft mode" departing from a controlled airport, when I call for clearance,
Do I have to push the hotkey for initial check in? or do I just key my mic and call for clearance? 

3. When flying from an uncontrolled airport, in "I have the aircraft mode" and tuned to a FSS, Multicom or Unicom, to receive an IFR clearance, 
Do I call using "radio <call sign> request IFR clearance to XXXX)" or do I have to push the hotkey for initial check in? or do I just key my mic and call for clearance?

No need for any hotkey when using MCE. You talk and don't push keys.

You can either press the MCE - PTT button and say something like "delta 182, requesting ATC clearance" yourself or you tell your FO to "request ATC clearance" and he will contact PF3.

 

 

17 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

4. When receiving a clearance from FSS, should I get a response back from FSS or Multicom or Unicom, that the read back is correct? and if so what is the correct verbiage? 

FSS just opens your flightplan. You confirm that with "roger". You don't get a clearance on Multicom or Unicom, if I'm not mistaken.

 

17 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

5. Does MCE recognize the hotkeys that have been changed in PF3?

Yes.

 

17 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

6. When requesting a climb or descent from a cruise altitude using MCE or the relevant hotkey, I have yet to be issued a climb or descent, (PF3 manual says a 10% probability that you may be denied but its happened on every flight so far) I am always told to remain at the my current altitude, However when asking for a climb due to turbulence or clouds, I'm always approved. Is this normal? (Probably a question for the PF3 forum, but thought I'd ask).

If you have the same issue when pressing the keys manually, it is not an MCE issue. Post that on the PF3 forum with your logs. (It's working fine for me though).

 

17 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

7. Should MCE be started prior to PF3 or vice versa?

Should make no difference.

17 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

8. Which PF3 VCP modes actually work with MCE? I know MCE sets the pilot voice to None and VCP 0 so as to use their recorded voices but will MCE's copilot operate in VCP mode 1,2 & 3 also?

I guess VCP modes 1,2 and 3 would conflict with the FO-functionality of MCE, so better leave it at 0. I don't think the PF3-VCP in modes 1,2,3 could do anything that the MCE-FO couldn't do.

 

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Thanks for the response RALF9636.

Everything seems to work ok except for the climb or descent issue. I know its not MCE because ATC answers when I or the FO makes the request. I'll post that question on the PF3 forum with the attached logs. I'm sure it's probably something I'm doing wrong with regards to my flt plan. 

 

Thanks again,

 

Tony 

 

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On 10/19/2018 at 1:00 PM, RALF9636 said:

6. When requesting a climb or descent from a cruise altitude using MCE or the relevant hotkey, I have yet to be issued a climb or descent, (PF3 manual says a 10% probability that you may be denied but its happened on every flight so far) I am always told to remain at the my current altitude, However when asking for a climb due to turbulence or clouds, I'm always approved. Is this normal? (Probably a question for the PF3 forum, but thought I'd ask).

So I did some more testing with the climb and descent issue. It appears it's not a PF3 issue as when the hotkey is pressed, I was able to get a climb and descent. When calling for a climb or descent myself I always get denied and when the FO calls and requests either climb or descent there is no response from ATC. It seems like the hotkey is not being seen or not sending the keystrokes quick enough. For example I am at 13000' and request a climb to 15000', when I use the hotkey (for climb mine is SHF+F1) then press 2, I get a climb to 15000'. When I request it myself I am told to remain at 13000. When the FO calls (Clive), ATC does not respond. Does the climb and descent hotkey have to be a single character, or is this a possible timing issue? I have tried using the default hotkeys, but I have the same problems, and some of the defaults interfere with a number of other programmed functions I have set throughout my sim, so I'd like to use whatever unused key codes  that are available, rather than changing a bunch of keycodes. When using native ATC I know MCE reads the request and then the altitude desired and selects it within the ATC menu, and that works with no problem. My keyboard repeat rate and repeat delay are both set to fast. Could this also cause a problem?

Running WIN 7, FSX, MCE ver 2.7.7.5, PF3 3.9.0

Thanks for all the assistance

Tony J.

 

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12 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

So I did some more testing with the climb and descent issue. It appears it's not a PF3 issue as when the hotkey is pressed, I was able to get a climb and descent. When calling for a climb or descent myself I always get denied and when the FO calls and requests either climb or descent there is no response from ATC. It seems like the hotkey is not being seen or not sending the keystrokes quick enough. For example I am at 13000' and request a climb to 15000', when I use the hotkey (for climb mine is SHF+F1) then press 2, I get a climb to 15000'. When I request it myself I am told to remain at 13000. When the FO calls (Clive), ATC does not respond. Does the climb and descent hotkey have to be a single character, or is this a possible timing issue? I have tried using the default hotkeys, but I have the same problems, and some of the defaults interfere with a number of other programmed functions I have set throughout my sim, so I'd like to use whatever unused key codes  that are available, rather than changing a bunch of keycodes. When using native ATC I know MCE reads the request and then the altitude desired and selects it within the ATC menu, and that works with no problem. My keyboard repeat rate and repeat delay are both set to fast. Could this also cause a problem?

Running WIN 7, FSX, MCE ver 2.7.7.5, PF3 3.9.0

Thanks for all the assistance

Tony J.

 

I just checked on my last flight. It works fine for me, both requesting myself and letting the FO make the request.

Did you try several aircraft? Maybe MCE does not read the altitude correctly from the aircraft?

When PF3 denied your request, did PF3 say "unable at this time, maintain ..." or just "maintain ...". In the latter case most probably the hotkey for "request to maintain current altitude" (for you: SHF+F1 + 0) was sent by MCE. In the former case it might just have been the random denial you sometimes get by PF3.

 

Also make sure that you make the request while flying level and with a correct altimeter setting.

 

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I have recently tried using MCE and PF3 again but can't seem to get it to work. 

When I ask the FO to handle the ATC, he acknowledges. But when I ask him to "Request ATC Clearance", after I have already set the frequency, I hear him say our callsign, but nothing else. Also if I push the MCE assigned PTT button and ask ATC myself, I get nothing! So end up giving up, and returning to using RC4. Not sure what is wrong?

  • I have RC4toXP plugin disabled
  • I have PF3toXP plugin Enabled
  • I have Active=1 set and Closed Captions unset in the PF3 options
  • I have Pilot voice=none in PF3
  • I'm using the correct frequency per PF3Display.dat file

Not sure what else I need to do for the FO to request things correctly, or to be heard by PF3 myself?

Stuart

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RALF9636,

Thanks again for your ongoing assistance.

When I physically pressed the hotkey (SHF+F1+2) I received the climb clearance, but when I called via MCE through my PTT button, I received the "maintain <altitude>". which is why I suspected maybe the hotkey wasn't firing correctly.  When the I asked the FO to "request climb" he asks for the desired altitude then makes the call, but receives no response back from ATC.

I also seem to recall buried back in another thread, something about MceFOPerCharSpeedDuration=30 and PfePerCharSpeedDuration=45. Are these entries still required or valid? 
or has that been taken into account in the latest version?

I have not tried other aircraft but will give it a shot. The aircraft I'm currently flying is the FS2X Beech Baron G1000. Altitude calls seem to work fine in native ATC.
All calls were made in level flight with the correct altimeter setting

Thanks again, your help is greatly appreciated,

Tony J 

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On 10/27/2018 at 2:43 AM, Fighter Guy said:

RALF9636,

Thanks again for your ongoing assistance.

When I physically pressed the hotkey (SHF+F1+2) I received the climb clearance, but when I called via MCE through my PTT button, I received the "maintain <altitude>". which is why I suspected maybe the hotkey wasn't firing correctly.  When the I asked the FO to "request climb" he asks for the desired altitude then makes the call, but receives no response back from ATC.

I also seem to recall buried back in another thread, something about MceFOPerCharSpeedDuration=30 and PfePerCharSpeedDuration=45. Are these entries still required or valid? 
or has that been taken into account in the latest version?

I have not tried other aircraft but will give it a shot. The aircraft I'm currently flying is the FS2X Beech Baron G1000. Altitude calls seem to work fine in native ATC.
All calls were made in level flight with the correct altimeter setting

Thanks again, your help is greatly appreciated,

Tony J 

Hi Tony,

I've changed the pf3 hotkey for higher alt to "H" and lower to "L".

Looking into pf3 i've asigned all my hotkeys to 1 single letter.

Best regards,

Edited by starter

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Hey Starter,

 

Thanks for your input. Initially I had the default single hotkeys for climb and descent, but because of my setup, I would get unusual problems while flying which turned out to be caused by the selected hotkeys being used by something else. So in an effort to prevent same key usage, I was try some other key combinations that were not used. 

I flew again last night and I was getting all kinds of weird issues. Definitely not PF3 related as when I manually hit the hotkeys I would get the proper response. I am going to try single hotkeys again, but it requires going through my setup to prevent conflict, and that's going to be a bit of a challenge. I'm not sure if it's a timing issue between MCE and PF3, or keyboard character speed. I had the MCE commands showing on the screen and MCE shows the correct command being sent, but I'm not getting anything back from PF3 on some requests. (i.e. Calling for clearance or requesting taxi seems to work ok, but with climbs and descents,  I typically get "Maintain current altitude" or I might get a climb or descent, but it would be to an altitude I did not request.).

 

Thanks again,

 

Tony J 

 

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To any MCE Support Staff and MCE/PF3 Users

So I finally had a chance to check all my hotkeys and key assignments in FSX and other programs. My hotkeys for climb and descent are single press
and not assigned to anything within FSX or any other program running. I have flown the same trip (KVCB-KRDD) for testing purposes the same way with PF3 only, with MCE only (native ATC), with PF3 and MCE with the copilot (Clive) handling the radios, and also with just me talking to ATC.  

What I found is that with PF3 only and native ATC only everything works as it should. All hotkeys within PF3 did what they were supposed to do in all respects. In native ATC with MCE, all menu items worked correctly. 

When using MCE and PF3 together, the only real problem I have is with climbs and descents being requested by myself or the copilot. When the copilot request a climb or descent there is no response from ATC.

When I request a climb or descent I always receive maintain current altitude. (As if climb hotkey + 0 is being sent). When using the hotkey itself ATC approves the request, but it's usually the wrong altitude requested. IE. Level 10000, requested 12000 (climb hotkey + 2), received 15000. The same issue occurs when requesting a descent also. When requesting a climb or descent due to clouds or turbulence, the request is usually granted with the occasional "unable at this time".

So my question is... From a MCE standpoint, is there anything I can check on my system to ensure the correct hotkey is being sent and pressed when requesting a climb or descent? I have tried the default "H and L" hotkeys and different key combinations, with the results being the same.  Or is there a debug log that can be viewed to determine if indeed the proper hotkeys are being sent?


I've tried the PfePerCharSpeedDuration=45 and MceFOPerCharSpeedDuration=30 lines in the mce.ini file with no luck and I've also read where those lines are no longer required and have commented them out, but the issue persists.

Why is ATC not responding to the copilots request for climbs or descents? When the copilot is running the radios and I request a climb or descent,  ATC tells me to maintain altitude, he correctly acknowledges the instruction, but when I tell him to request either climb or descent he correctly ask me for my desired altitude, and requests it, but gets absolutely no response from ATC to climb descend or maintain altitude.

I tried different acft and I tried reinstalling MCE, creating a new speech profile and completed speech training again also but to no avail.

I'm running the current version of MCE 2.7.8.0 and PF3 Ver 3.9.0. I know it seems like a small issue, but I like the idea of not having to press a button every time I want to do something which greatly enhances the immersion factor.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Love MCE and won't fly without it.


Tony J

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What phrases exactly do you say in either case (when talking to ATC and to your FO)?

Edited by RALF9636

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RALF9636,

 

Thanks for the response. The phrase I use to call ATC is  <"Facility> <Call sign> request climb or descent to <altitude">. I receive a response from ATC, but I am always told to "maintain current altitude". I have received the response "unable at this time" but only when using the hotkey.

When I have the F/O request a climb or descent I say <"request climb or descent please">.  He responds "what altitude desired?",  I give him the requested altitude and he calls ATC. I have yet to have ATC respond to him.

Again, I know that PF3 functions properly by itself. It just seems that the climb and descent commands don't seem to be firing the hotkeys correctly or not at all.

 

Thanks for your assistance,

 

Tony J

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Try these:

 

To ATC: "<facility> <callsign> requesting flight level three four zero".

FL340 as an example, but always try "flight level", even if it actually is an altitude. Don't request "climb" or "descent", request only the flight level.

 

The same for the FO: "request flight level three four zero". Only this one command, without a query by the FO.

 

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RALF9636

9 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Try these:

 

To ATC: "<facility> <callsign> requesting flight level three four zero".

FL340 as an example, but always try "flight level", even if it actually is an altitude. Don't request "climb" or "descent", request only the flight level.

 

The same for the FO: "request flight level three four zero". Only this one command, without a query by the FO.

 

You sir are the man!!!  😂😂😂. I have just completed a perfect flight from KVCB-KRDD with no problems. The key it seems was I was so use to using native ATC  and saying <"Facility> <Call sign> request climb or descent to <altitude> it never occured to me that it was just how I was asking. (key word being climb/descent).  Both of your examples worked. I even tried using "altitude" vs "flight level" and that worked also.

A couple of questions, 

1. How does PF3 determine the altitudes for intermediate climbs and descents when you have not leveled off? for example I was level at 10000 and requested 15000. The climb to 15000 was approved and I started to climb. I had not leveled off yet and I requested a climb to FL190 but received clearance to FL200. Just wondering do you always need to be level if you want a specific altitude?

 

2. I requested and received clearance direct to a point. I started my turn direct (about 30 degrees left of my current track), ATC began nagging me to turn back to the right. My question, Do you have to wait for ATC to vector you off your course or can you proceed as cleared? and how do I prevent ATC from nagging me if I'm cleared? 

 

3. What's the magic phrase you use to get FSS or Unicom to respond to requests?  I've had limited success with "radio" and "traffic". I know you have to wait about 30 secs for them to respond initially, but getting out from an uncontrolled airport seems to be a bit of a challenge via MCE.

 

Many thanks again for all of your assistance, the climb and descent issue was frustrating me to no end!!!

 

Tony J

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9 hours ago, Fighter Guy said:

RALF9636

You sir are the man!!!  😂😂😂. I have just completed a perfect flight from KVCB-KRDD with no problems. The key it seems was I was so use to using native ATC  and saying <"Facility> <Call sign> request climb or descent to <altitude> it never occured to me that it was just how I was asking. (key word being climb/descent).  Both of your examples worked. I even tried using "altitude" vs "flight level" and that worked also.

Nice that it works for you. Good to know "altitude"also works. I've had some problems with that in the past.

 

Quote

A couple of questions, 

1. How does PF3 determine the altitudes for intermediate climbs and descents when you have not leveled off? for example I was level at 10000 and requested 15000. The climb to 15000 was approved and I started to climb. I had not leveled off yet and I requested a climb to FL190 but received clearance to FL200. Just wondering do you always need to be level if you want a specific altitude?

Be aware what calculations have to be made for the altitude request:

1. MCE has to detect your current altitude (maybe also the autopilot setting comes into play here - not sure about that).

2. MCE has to calculate the difference to the requested level.

3. MCE then sends the according hotkey(s)

4. PF3 has to detect the current altitude.

5. PF3 has to calculate the resulting altitude according to the sent hotkey.

 

You are calling for trouble if you do that when not flying level...

 

Quote

 

2. I requested and received clearance direct to a point. I started my turn direct (about 30 degrees left of my current track), ATC began nagging me to turn back to the right. My question, Do you have to wait for ATC to vector you off your course or can you proceed as cleared? and how do I prevent ATC from nagging me if I'm cleared? 

 

Normally you should be fine turning to your cleared point immediately after the direct clearance.

There is a little inconvenience in PF3 though. PF3 calculates the heading to the cleared point, not the track (including a wind correction angle). So with a significant crosswind PF3 will give you a wrong heading because you have to fly a wind correction angle. In that case PF3 will keep nagging about your heading. What I do is turn to the instructed heading once for a little while and then turn back to the direct course. That's enough to make PF3 happy.

 

Quote

 

3. What's the magic phrase you use to get FSS or Unicom to respond to requests?  I've had limited success with "radio" and "traffic". I know you have to wait about 30 secs for them to respond initially, but getting out from an uncontrolled airport seems to be a bit of a challenge via MCE.

Try "radio <callsign> requesting you open my flightplan".

 

Edited by RALF9636

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RALF9636,

Thanks for the tips. I just completed another successful PF3/MCE integrated flight with no problems except those that were self induced😁.

Thanks again for all of your help. It is greatly appreciated.

 

Tony J

 

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