Simicro

Can't get to crossfill GTN 650/750

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Hi,

I purchased the GTN 650 earlier this week. While I still like VOR and NDB navigation, looks like I'm hooked to GPS... so I ended up buying the GTN 750.

I can't get to crossfill GTN 650/750 on the A2A Bonanza because the buttons are grayed out.

crossfill.png

 

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Hi,

This is normal. Unlike the RXP GNS V2, the GTN simulation doesn't offer cross fill yet.

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1 minute ago, RXP said:

the GTN simulation doesn't offer cross fill yet.

And that is a function of the Garmin trainer product itself. Not a function of the Reality XP product.

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I understand that sometimes in the future, the feature will be available. I think I read in a thread that it's in the pipe.

Meanwhile, please give me an advice.

I plan to enter the flightplan in the 750, use its moving map, and display data related to the flight plan.

For the 650 of course I don't want to enter again the flight plan, so I plan to use it to display infos not related to the flight plan, such as: ground speed, timer, and so on...

Makes sense?

PS: it's good to see the friendly presence of both of you here.

 

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Or I will possibly disable the 650 untill crossfill is available.

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3 hours ago, Simicro said:

I understand that sometimes in the future, the feature will be available. I think I read in a thread that it's in the pipe.

Meanwhile, please give me an advice.

I plan to enter the flightplan in the 750, use its moving map, and display data related to the flight plan.

For the 650 of course I don't want to enter again the flight plan, so I plan to use it to display infos not related to the flight plan, such as: ground speed, timer, and so on...

Makes sense?

PS: it's good to see the friendly presence of both of you here.

 

There is one path to produce the results you are looking for.  The RXP GTN's both have the feature to import flight plans that are in Garmin .gfp format.  So if you create a .gfp file for a flight you can then import it into each of your GTN gauges.  What you must find is a method acceptable to you to create those files. 

There is a simulator related flight planner named Little Navmap.  It has a feature to export a flight plan created in Little Navmap in the Garmin .gfp file format.  As with any separate program, you will need to advance through a learning curve to become proficient in both creating flight plans with the program, and subsequently exporting the files for later import into your gauges.

There is a flight planning website named iFlightplanner.com that also provides the feature to create flight plans and then export them for later import.  The .gfp feature is available there once you register.  You must configure at least one aircraft there in order to do flight planning.  It is free for 30 days, but then becomes a paid-subscription site after that.

You can create your flight plans with any flight planner and then use a simple text editor to create the .gfp file.  At first look they appear to be relatively simple.  Here is how a flight plan from Denver Rocky Mountain (KBJC) to Indianapolis (KIND) typically looks, picking up J airway J80 from FQF to MCI then J24 airway from MKC to VHP (near Indianapolis International).

FPN/RI:F:KBJC:F:FQF.J80.MCI.J24.VHP:F:KIND

While this looks simple, there is an explicit structure behind the files. There are places where (.) periods are used as separators, and places where (:) colons are used. The structure is simple if you have no Airways, no Departure, no Arrival, or no Approach included in the .gfp file.  But if you begin adding in those elements the file specs become increasingly complex, and each complexity is explicit.  So if it is not perfect, the Garmin GTN Trainer, which is the engine behind the RXP gauges, will either reject the .gfp file, may strip airways from the flight plan,  or will "lock" waypoints within the flight plan.

There is no perfect answer.  I have spent hours attempting to learn and use the format manually. And I still have trouble. Flight plans I created several months ago and imported successfully then will no longer import without error.  (1) it appears the NAV points, Arrivals, Departures, and Approaches, must match between the flight planner you use and the database in use the GTN trainer in the RXP gauge.  So if into St Louis your plan calls arrival CHICKN3 in the flight plan, but the database in the Trainer is still using CHICKN2, then it creates an error upon an attempt to import. (2) At times I have tried to use NAV fixes that are on an airway at the flight planning site, but are rejected by the Garmin Trainer. This appears to happen most often when the name of the NAV has a duplicate in the database.  As an example, BUNKA intersection on V221, just west of OOM near Bloomington, Indiana, has a duplicate BUNKA in the Garmin worldwide database.  That duplicate is near the African country of Ivory Coast.  Just yesterday I attempted to create a .gfp file to import for a flight from Maryland to Indiana.  Upon import the trainer locked no fewer than (4) four fixes because of duplicate fix names in the database.

Long story short.  I still create some .gfp format files for import, but I keep them very simple. Usually just the Departure airport, Arrival airport, and just the first fix on the route.  When that imports, I simply edit the plan in the RXP GTN by pulling up that first fix, then clicking Load Airway, then selecting the Airway and the last NAV I need on that Airway.  Then I do the same from that point with any subsequent airways. Departures, Arrivals, and approaches are also easier to add once the plan has been imported than to get correct in the .gfp file before importing it.

Here is such a simplified file for import when I know from my planning that I want to fly J80 to Kansas City and J24 on to Indianapolis.
FPN/RI:F:KBJC:F:FQF:F:KIND

Then in the GTN, import the file. Then select FQF, Load Airway, select J80, then select MCI as the exit point, then click Load.  Then click on MCI, select Load Airway, select J24, then select VHP as the exit point and click Load.  The GTN will expand the flight plan to include all interim fixes.

I find now that I can simplify as with the file above, then add in the airways as described when in the GTN. Then make sure you store the plan (Activating it will also store it).  I can import the simple file into both GTN's and edit to expand it in each as described above in much less time than I spend screwing around trying to build more complex .gtn files that don't then import.

Edited by fppilot
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Hello Franck,

Thanks so much for your time and quite comprehensive explanations.

Yeah I thought about loading the same flight plan into both GTN 650/750. I read indeed about Little Navmap and others. I'm using FSTramp and I do not wish to multiply softwares.

Understood for text editing. So it can become tricky. I confess that since I moved to P3D I am no more into tweaking, editing, etc.

I think I wil keep using my flight planner and type in one GTN (the 750) the flight plan. I will reactivate the 650 when crossfill is available.

Hopefully a mate good at programming will release someday a utility to convert a standard P3D .fpl to .gfp

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27 minutes ago, Simicro said:

Hopefully a mate good at programming will release someday a utility to convert a standard P3D .fpl to .gfp

LOL. The formats are Soooo much different that will not likely take place.

If you do not enter flight plans into the second GTN there are still other uses during your flights.  Traffic; Terrain; your position on a moving map; COM monitoring, such as tuning in airport ATIS or AWOS frequencies for updated altimeter settings; display different User Fields on the map, such as current time; OAT; Wind Speed and Direction, Fuel Flow; Trip Timer, etc.

Man o man would I love to see RXP add the weather feature by tapping into FSGRW or Active Sky....  Right now I am using the FltPlanGo IOS app for that.

Edited by fppilot

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16 hours ago, Simicro said:

For the 650 of course I don't want to enter again the flight plan, so I plan to use it to display infos not related to the flight plan, such as: ground speed, timer, and so on...

Hi Franck

Yes I thought about that too instead of disabling the 650.

Regarding weather, looks like we are talking of a kind of meteo radar within the GPS.

It would be a nice addition indeed.

You desire it so much, that I'm with you man 🙂

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It would certainly increase sales....  To pull in from a simulator weather engine data like the Garmin pulls in for a subscriber to XM Weather, as well as the subscription-free ADS-B weather data available in the U.S. The ADS-B weather link provides in-flight access to animated NEXRAD imagery, METARs, TAFs, winds and temperatures aloft, PIREPs, NOTAMs and more.

Edited by fppilot

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Sure it would increase sales.

If I have both 650 and 750 running in my A2A Bonanza, it seems that the 650 is slaved to the aircraft systems. How do I make the 750 slaved to the aircraft instead of the 650?

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You change the Master Device setting between the two in the Configuration Panel.  It's on page 5 of the RXP GTN User's Manual. Shift+Right Click on the top edge of an RXP GTN opens that panel.  If your 650 is operating as you wish then take note of the various settings in it's Configuration Panel and duplicate those settings in the 750's Configuration Panel.  Make the 750 the Master and unselect Master for the 650.

There are additional settings in the panel(s) for those respective gauges that may enhance your use.  Read the manual for descriptions.

Note that in the panel, when you see a downward pointing triangle to the right of an option, that indicates that clicking on that option will open a cascading set of sub-options.

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Hi Franck,

Thanks. I now see that "Master Device" in page 5, under the form of a screenshot. As the functionality is not elaborated in the main text of the page, I think that is why I skipped it.

Thanks again for your kind help.

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13 minutes ago, Simicro said:

As the functionality is not elaborated in the main text of the page, I think that is why I skipped it.

This and many other items. The product initial version was already feature-rich, and as we've added new functionalities based on our excellent customer's inputs, we've increasingly made it maybe harder for newcomers to apprehend it all.

I agree there is much to document and we're still debating between concise in-line help (kind of (i) button with tooltip/popup) in the settings panel itself or longer explanations in the User's Manual which is, whatever one may say, hardly read by most of our customers unless there is an issue with the product (count the number of times I'm asking for RXP log files in this forum, although it is clearly indicated in the "troubleshooting" section of the User's Manual 😉 )

All in all though, we've approached the settings to be usable without reading the manual, with most settings self-explanatory albeit a few are probably harder to grasp at first glance.

Please feel free to make suggestions for these, preferably a new discussion would be best to centralize everyone's ideas?

 

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Bonjour Jean-Luc,

Back to the original subject: can we hope a crossfill functionality between the GTN 650 and GTN 750 sometimes next year?

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7 hours ago, Simicro said:

Bonjour Jean-Luc,

Back to the original subject: can we hope a crossfill functionality between the GTN 650 and GTN 750 sometimes next year?

I believe that is a function lacking in the Garmin trainer itself.  And that is the core of the simulator gauges.

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So the GNS Garmin Trainer do offer crossfill but not the GTN Garmin Trainer?

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4 hours ago, Simicro said:

So the GNS Garmin Trainer do offer crossfill but not the GTN Garmin Trainer?

There is no RXP Garmin Trainer.  The Garmin Trainer is the Garmin Trainer, by Garmin.  Please understand.  RXP utilizes the Garmin Trainer and adapts it as best as possible for the simulator.  RXP is unable to do with the Garmin Trainer what the Garmin Trainer has not been designed to do.  Garmin did not design crossfill into the Garmin GTN Trainer.  That was a Garmin decision, not an RXP decision. 

Edited by fppilot
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Hello Franck,

What I now understand is that there is one and only Garmin Trainer by Garmin used for all RXP products.

Despite crossfill not being available in the Garmin Trainer, RXP achieved to make it happen for the RXP GNSv2.

So it should be possible to make it happen for the RXP GTN too?

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14 hours ago, fppilot said:

RXP is unable to do with the Garmin Trainer what the Garmin Trainer has not been designed to do.

This is partly true: our implementation features a number of functions not designed in the trainer. This is always custom RXP code on top of the trainer, or at a lower level on top some of the trainer internal functions normally not active by default.

We've been working on the GTN cross-fill function some time ago, but we've had to postpone due to workload and overall performance not reaching our higher standards. I don't despair we'll enable this in the future, but I can't vouch on it yet.

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Sure I understand Jean-Luc and thanks for explaining, sharing and also taking into account performance.

If someday crossfill becomes available for GTN 650 and 750, that would be a nice bonus or reward for (good) RXP customers (since they have both GTN).

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