I read in a NG (agmfs) that the demo code is old and released for gamers..its not the real thing for us "simmers"...Could that be true? Why would MS treat us like this? If so will MS release a demo with the real code to quell the mounting dissatisfaction especially as it relates to performance/fps?Hopefully Mike tdragger can shed some light on this as he has always been quite forthcoming with sharing what he canthanksBillPS Edit ..the person who posted the info is an MS/FS MVP and beta tester

Give them a break. We were lucky to even get a demo. While I wish there were less bugs/glitches, understand they were making the while also making the final product. Sounds like a difficult task.

have you ever worked in software development?what exactly do they call "old"?what's their definition of a "gamer"?I'd be highly surprised if 1) the entire codebase of FSX were written from scratch and 2) the demo was just a collection of bits and pieces of code taken from other products and designed to be different in major aspects from the full product.And remember: we ARE gamers. This is a game we're involved in, pure and simple. If you want a real flight simulator, you need one of those things the airlines and airforce have which cost millions, require a decent sized building to house them, and have energy consumption requiring multiple dedicated 380V lines.

>Give them a break. We were lucky to even get a demo. While>I wish there were less bugs/glitches, understand they were>making the while also making the final product. Sounds like a>difficult task. I will give them all the breaks they want but it is really disappointing when someone supposedly in the know says we got served bad mash..so I am curious to know if that is in fact so....If that is the case I would prefer them not releasing the demo until it was closer to the final RTM code. Anyway I will see what the boss man has to say if anythingBill

Free bad mash.

>And remember: we ARE gamers. This is a game we're involved in,>pure and simple. >If you want a real flight simulator, you need one of those>things the airlines and airforce have which cost millions,>require a decent sized building to house them, and have energy>consumption requiring multiple dedicated 380V lines.However, we don

As a FS gamer (or simmer) I can stand the occasional graphics glitch or FPS slowdown. But this dem.... The average non FS gamer will run this demo once and after that he will forever be sure why he dislikes flightsims.Demo's are generaly released to give you an idea about the product and showoff its good features. This demo has the opposite effect on me. I'm wondering why they released it. As a bit of info for the crazed simmers? You could release it as a BETA preview on the flightsimmer hangouts but this thing gets a full world wide general release. This is bad marketing.

>Free bad mash.without a doubt :-)

which is also a game.

it was released to drive away people whose only interest in a new Microsoft title is to first pirate it and then complain about it being too expensive.

i just read some posts at the Gamespot FSX forum, my god MS wont get many costumers from that place, they dont like the demo at all.

>which is also a game.a "game" which was approved by FAA for training...http://www.x-plane.com/FTD.html

>i just read some posts at the Gamespot FSX forum, my god MS>wont get many costumers from that place, they dont like the>demo at all.It has NOTHING to do with the PEOPLE at Gamespot. It's like I said before, you CANNOT ADVERTISE TO GAMERS WITHOUT IT BEING MORE THAN JUST FLYING A PLANE AND DROPPING BAGS OF FLOUR & NO CRASH/DAMAGES/EXPLOSIONS. The ONLY PROBLEM I've had with FSX is their WANTING to reach gamers with the XBOX 360 controller and saying there are "MISSIONS" like it's going to detract from the lack of machine gun fire and dog fights/combat and blowing things up. IF they HAD that stuff in there then GUESS WHAT the reviews MIGHT BE BETTER from GAMERS which is what gamespot is all about.I ENJOY sitting in a virtual Ultralight and looking at the ground/cars/sky without any explosions. I also like flying FULL REAL world procedures in an aircraft I'll never pilot such as Heavy Iron. BUT I'd ALSO like to have damaging visual effects not for the purpose of going to crash but for the purpose of the WHOLE ENCHILADA of REALISM. Which is WHAT A SIMULATOR IS SUPPOSED TO EMULATE AS MUCH AS IT CAN. Otherwise, there is NO SIMULATION, there is a Fantasy. So maybe they should have called it Flight Fantasy then the gamers wouldn't be confused which is what Microsoft wanted to reach out to.I on the other hand am HAPPY at the direction the sim is going but it DOES need a LOT of polishing to make it usable. MOSTLY visual/texture issues that I've seen.ONE of the COOLEST THINGS I LOVE is the 5.1 Sound!! EXCELLENT work there. NOT so sure about the AI yet as they seemed toned down but we don't have enough to really know. But the 1st thing I did was CRANK my audio and did a spot view of the Ultralight and the sound was VERY VERY NICE. As well, when going inside and the change in atmosphere and location.Carmine http://forums.avsim.net/images/wave.gif

Well it's a flight simulator, not a crash simulator... Crashing isn't something I learned in flight school, and it's something I never want to do... So if you don't want to do it in real life, why is it realistic to do it in-game?

>Well it's a flight simulator, not a crash simulator... >Crashing isn't something I learned in flight school, and it's>something I never want to do... So if you don't want to do it>in real life, why is it realistic to do it in-game?REPEAT, REPEAT: IT WILL *NOT* APPEAL TO THE MAJORITY OF GAMERS WITHOUT EXPLOSIONS/CRASHING/DAMAGING/SHOOTING.I didn't say I WANT TO CRASH, the point is that MOST GAMERS DO. I, being a REAL WORLD Private Pilot don't EXPECT to crash, but if I have an incident it would be pretty sobering to see what would happen if something went awry.ENOUGH WITH THE NOT CRASH SIMULATOR! NO KIDDING! It's the point on WHY THERE will be BAD REVIEWS is all and that's a BIG PART of it whether you, the next guy or I who are into "AVIATION" don't care.Carmine http://forums.avsim.net/images/wave.gif