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Hi Guys:

I was flying KSAF-PHMK.  6 pax, 1 jumpseat, 1,000lbs cargo, and full fuel. As I entered PHZH airspace, I ran out of gas.  What'd I do wrong?

Here's the flight plan:

DEP: KSAF/SAF 20    ELEV 6349  FT   MACH:       .80       TTL G/C DIST:  2801 NM
ARR: PHMK/MKK 23    ELEV 454   FT   INIT ALT:   FL380     TTL F/P DIST:  2838 NM
                                    FUEL BIAS:  100.0%    TTL AIR DIST:  2838 NM
                                                          AVG WIND CMP:    100 KT

TRIP          12339  ........  06:22 
10 PCT         1029  ........  00:38
ALTN PHOG       570  ........  00:16
INTL HOLD       892  ........  00:30
HOLD            444  ........  00:15
MIN T/O       15274  ........  08:01       .....................................
EXTRA        ......  ........  .....       CAPTAINS SIGNATURE  (....)
TAXI            200  ........  00:10       
RELEASE       15474  ........  08:11       I ACCEPT THIS OFP AND I AM FAMILIAR
ARR FUEL       2835  ........  01:34       WITH THE PLANNED ROUTE AND AERODROMES

FUEL TANK CAP 15513 LB / MAX EXTRA FUEL 39 LB LIM BY CAPACITY
TRIP CORR FOR 500 LB TOW INCR: N/A LB / 500 LB TOW DECR: -143 LB
2000 FT LOWER:  +238 LB / EET 06:21  CLB: 250/260/72  DES: 80/330/250

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KSAF  STD 15:00Z/08:00L  ETD 15:00Z  ACT OFBL ....  EST T/O 15:10Z  ACT T/O ....
PHMK  STA 22:15Z/12:15L  ETA 21:37Z  ACT ONBL ....  EST LDG 21:32Z  ACT LDG ....
      SKD 07:15          PLN 06:37   TTL BLCK ....  EST FLT 06:22   TTL FLT ....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATC ROUTE: N0459F380 ZIASE4 GUP J96 LAX C1316 DINTY/N0459F400 R576
           DADIE/N0459F430 R576 OGG V15 MKK DCT

 

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Posted (edited)

Not clear from what direction your winds were from, and Mach .80 might be a bit high for a long distance flight, perhaps Mach .75. Also the range at Mach .80 is 3,020 miles (2,625 nautical miles). Your trip looks like it was 2838 NM, So refueling in San Diego would of been your best option before heading over to PHMK.

Cheers

Martin

 

Edited by MartinRex007

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Hmmm.  Thanks.  I thought the range was 3,600 NM.  I'm surprised PFPX gave the release.

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Yeah, there seems to be a range of values on the internet referring to the range of the Falcon 50, the 2,625 NM above  was with 8 passengers at Mach .80 so that would probably be the minimum range, but always safe to error on the low side :-)

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Posted (edited)

I have my own PFPX profile from a -4 engined F50 operator's manual.

I always crosscheck point-to-points with fuel required and total fuel usage from the dispatch sheet. That way I can know whether my profile is working ok at any given flight.

For example, this profile tends to under-estimate trip fuel for short hops, is spot on on medium flights, and over-estimate for long haul flights from roughly 1900nm onwards.

Edited by Guevorkyan

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MartinRex007 said:

Not clear from what direction your winds were from, and Mach .80 might be a bit high for a long distance flight, perhaps Mach .75. Also the range at Mach .80 is 3,020 miles (2,625 nautical miles). Your trip looks like it was 2838 NM, So refueling in San Diego would of been your best option before heading over to PHMK.

Cheers

Martin

 

I just landed after a flight from MBGT to KSAF. Headwinds were brutal and right out of the west,as is normal this time of year. I don't use a planning tool but here is how I plan my trips:

ZFW includes 6 pax + jump sea FA + 800 lb baggage/cargo

Fuel Plan

1600 LB taxi, TO, climb out

Estimated average GS 380 kts with 80-100 kts head wind today (courtesy ASN). 120 nm climb out 1600 lb; cruise FL390

120 nm descent 800 lb

For a 3000 nm trip, hours at cruise 2760 nm at cruise at 380 kts average

Time at cruise 2760/380= 7.2 hrs at cruise; long ride

Fuel burn at cruise 2200 lb/hr @ M.80

Total fuel at cruise 7.2x2200=15840 lb; uh-oh

Reserve 1200 lb

Total fuel trip 15840+1600+800+1200=19440 lb

Uh-oh. Not getting there today without a refueling stop. Headwinds awful. Much better ride going East. 🙂

Edited by Wink207

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Where'd you stop?

48 minutes ago, Wink207 said:

I just landed after a flight from MBGT to KSAF. Headwinds were brutal and right out of the west,as is normal this time of year. I don't use a planning tool but here is how I plan my trips:

ZFW includes 6 pax + jump sea FA + 800 lb baggage/cargo

Fuel Plan

1600 LB taxi, TO, climb out

Estimated average GS 380 kts with 80-100 kts head wind today (courtesy ASN). 120 nm climb out 1600 lb; cruise FL390

120 nm descent 800 lb

For a 3000 nm trip, hours at cruise 2760 nm at cruise at 380 kts average

Time at cruise 2760/380= 7.2 hrs at cruise; long ride

Fuel burn at cruise 2200 lb/hr @ M.80

Total fuel at cruise 7.2x2200=15840 lb; uh-oh

Reserve 1200 lb

Total fuel trip 15840+1600+800+1200=19440 lb

Uh-oh. Not getting there today without a refueling stop. Headwinds awful. Much better ride going East. 🙂

 

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Even at 0.80 mach the time looks off at 6:22 unless there was zero wind.

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28 minutes ago, Joe L said:

Even at 0.80 mach the time looks off at 6:22 unless there was zero wind.

I made it from MBGT to KSAF ok but landed with only 500 lb in the tank. Probably would have gotten myself fired in RW. 😞

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2 hours ago, Joe L said:

Even at 0.80 mach the time looks off at 6:22 unless there was zero wind.

Well now that you say that, for some reason PFPX seems to have made the calculations w/ WND.  Not sure why, because AS16 showed it was connected.

 

1 hour ago, Wink207 said:

I made it from MBGT to KSAF ok but landed with only 500 lb in the tank. Probably would have gotten myself fired in RW. 😞

I woulda been sweating bullets. 

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9 minutes ago, Dreamflight767 said:

Well now that you say that, for some reason PFPX seems to have made the calculations w/ WND.  Not sure why, because AS16 showed it was connected.

 

I woulda been sweating bullets. 

I was more than that 🙂 But I swore there would be no "FSX mid air refueling...."

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