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Guest tdragger

Will there be speech recognition?

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To me, this would be a great feature as it would BOTH let me keep my hands where they are needed (instead of choosing ATC commands/replies) and add a gigantic element of realism and immersion.I've seen a few 3rd party solutions but I haven't really come around to buy any of them yet. I did try the VoxATC demo, which was nice, but I never bought it because I didn't like the fact I was detached from what happend aroound me, AI-wise. The other SR product would be FSCOM but every post or user review I've seen on that products waves big warning flags. The product seems to mix bugs and weird behavior with the same limitations as VoxATC. So, here we are, still pressing ATC buttons. Do we have to wait another four years for SR or will it be in FSX? :-smooch

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Oh how that would be awesome. I would just love a basic foundation for SR for ATC responses. Heck, I would be happy just to speak what is in the ATC popup screen and ifATC didn't hear it correctly just say the corresponding number and if that didn't work hit the keyboard.

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For now, I would be happy if we could undock that window and move it to a second or third or fourth monitor.:)Manny

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Are you talking about the ATC window? You can do that now. ???

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It would have to feature extremely good recognition software. I remember IBM's Via Voice software. I never managed to get it to work .... even after two hours of "training" the software to recognize my voice :-boom

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>Are you talking about the ATC window? You can do that now.>???Yeah! Really?Doh!:)Manny

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tried it, doesn't work, only in windows mode... not in full screen unless i did something wrong, but then the second monitor goes full screen and nothing else is visible

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>Are you talking about the ATC window? You can do that now.>???When I try that, the window looses transparency and the text disappears completely, making it rather pointless... ;)

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>Are you talking about the ATC window? You can do that now.>???Hello FS Boss:-)Yes and No. If you undock the atc window and drag it onto another monitor that is powered by non 3d accelerated card you will create a slide show in your main view. Panels are OK as they can be moved to any non 3d accelerated window, ATC window however seems to be same kind of "beast" as the main 3d view. Example: I have 4 monitors. 2 are for the outside view and run on AGP GF6800 (3d dx9) (my setup) http://www.geocities.com/fsbobby/The other two are for the panels with older matrox pci cards (non dx9 compliant) I can not move my ATC undocked window to the bottom monitors without losing almost 90% of FPS in the main view because (I think) the ATC window needs to be run on a 3d dx9 accelerated card.Hopefully that will not be the case in FSX since ATC window doesn't need any fancy 3d graphics-:)Thanks for you participation and for listening to us.Robert

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Yes, there are shortcomings in the FS2004 implementation but it is possible. The ATC window is like any other panel window--just undock in windowed mode, move to the other monitor, and return to full screen. You can then drag/resize it in full screen mode on the 2nd monitor.>> When I try that, the window looses transparency True.>> and the text disappears completelyHmm. That sounds like a driver issue.>> but then the second monitor goes full screen and nothing else is visibleTrue. Same for any other panel window.>> If you undock the atc window and drag it onto another monitor that is powered by non 3d accelerated card you will create a slide show in your main view. Could be, but 3D PCI cards are cheap. You might want to upgrade.>> since ATC window doesn't need any fancy 3d graphicsPerhaps, but it's still rendered by the same system.

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>>> If you undock the atc window and drag it onto another>monitor that is powered by non 3d accelerated card you will>create a slide show in your main view. >>Could be, but 3D PCI cards are cheap. You might want to>upgrade.I apologize, but I should have said dx9 not 3d accelerated. Both of my older Matrox pci cards have 3d accel. Currently there are only two Nvidia dx9 based pci cards - FX 5200 and 5500 that come in PCI model. For those of us with an AGP system, older PCI cards make great choice for secondary monitors/panel display.>Perhaps, but it's still rendered by the same system.<http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimul...ultimonitor.asp"Note that, as in previous versions of Flight Simulator, some windows (e.g., avionics, the kneeboard window, and the GPS) are not rendered in 3D. Using multiple accelerator cards does not improve performance when these windows are displayed. However, the main instrument panel, virtual cockpit, all exterior views, and the ATC window are rendered in 3D, and when displaying these windows or views on secondary displays, performance will be much better than when using a similar configuration in previous versions of Flight Simulator. The improved multiple-monitor support in Flight Simulator 2004 directly uses the secondary 3D device rather than copying the display of the primary device to the second display. "In short by having the ATC window use the same rendering as the GPS, avionics etc. we would be able to move it to another monitor - as it currently stands you can't do that since it creates huge performance loss.Thanks for your response.Robert

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>I apologize, but I should have said dx9 not 3d accelerated.>Both of my older Matrox pci cards have 3d accel. Currently>there are only two Nvidia dx9 based pci cards - FX 5200 and>5500 that come in PCI model. For those of us with an AGP>system, older PCI cards make great choice for secondary>monitors/panel display.Anything DX7 or greater should be adequate.>In short by having the ATC window use the same rendering as>the GPS, avionics etc. we would be able to move it to another>monitor - as it currently stands you can't do that since it>creates huge performance loss.If we did that I think you'd loose the transparency. Nonetheless performance degradation is something we can look into, though I've never experienced it myself.

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>>I apologize, but I should have said dx9 not 3d accelerated.>>Both of my older Matrox pci cards have 3d accel. Currently>>there are only two Nvidia dx9 based pci cards - FX 5200 and>>5500 that come in PCI model. For those of us with an AGP>>system, older PCI cards make great choice for secondary>>monitors/panel display.>>Anything DX7 or greater should be adequate.>>>In short by having the ATC window use the same rendering as>>the GPS, avionics etc. we would be able to move it to>another>>monitor - as it currently stands you can't do that since it>>creates huge performance loss.>>If we did that I think you'd loose the transparency.>Nonetheless performance degradation is something we can look>into, though I've never experienced it myself.Thanks for the explanation, after I wrote I realized that unlike the panels, ATC window is transparent. That is probably the reson why it had to be rendered in 3d. To help your investigation, the degradation only occurs if you move the ATC window to the secondary card/monitor (which affects only people who have older pci cards in addition to AGP and use them for third or fourth display) You wont notice it if you have dual head AGP card and two monitors.Again thank you for letting us participate in this way. Keep up the great work.Robert

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Heh, not much reaction i dare say.Let me rephrase a bit: Is there a technical reason the current 3rd party solutions has little or no AI traffic awareness? I'm using Radar Contact 4 myself and, while that product is aware of AI traffic, it wasn't so before its fourth iteration. There are other products that are aware of AI traffic but the other ones concerned with ATC, that I know of, (VoxATC and FSCOM, and I'm sure there's more) has no AI traffic awareness at all. The guys who wrote these products isn't "technically challenged" so I'm suspecting the FS API could use a re-visit to make it easier to write "AI traffic aware" modules/add ons.No?

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OK, lets try again and see if TDragger or Pixelpoke care to comment: I would have assumed that voice recognition would be a natural step to increase the value of the 'game', expecially since Microsoft would be able to include an existing, MS proprietary, technology into their own product. If this is not the case, is it a tehnical (would be too complex to make it i this iteration) or marketing (let's leave something for the 3rd party crew) decision?From your silence I'm nurturing a quiet hope it will be a surprise for us later this year... :-badteeth

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Hey guys,Not sure if you are aware but there is already a fantastic freeware program called Shoot 1.6. http://clans.gameclubcentral.com/shoot/Obviously you need a mic or headset with mic. It uses XP's speech recognition software to learn the quirks of your voice and works by sitting in the background in windows with whatever profile you pick - much like the saitek x45/52 joystick profiles. You can have a different profile for a different game and I was really surprised how well it works. I use it in both FS9 and Falcon 4 Allied force and the level of immersion is fantastic! (be warned though. If you use this product in the company of the wife and or other family members... be prepared to be ridiculed!!!)The program itself is coded in xml so its easy to assign phrases with a particular set of keystrokes. and it even comes with a few profiles already setup for you to use as a template (fs9 is one of them I believe) Obviously for the atc in FS9 multiple different replies are assigned to the 1,2,3,4 etc keys depending on where you are and who you are talking to so replying with the correct phrase at the correct time is important. But with a bit of trial and error you can get some stock replies set to how you like it. Good news is, seeing as it's just basically a speech to key assignment program and is not loaded into the game itself, it should be fine for FSX!It really does add lots to the realism of the game to hear atc respond to your commands, requests etc, and is also good if you fly some of the big birds as you can set all manner of commands e.g "flaps 5, 15 etc" and having the sim change the flaps as if you are giving orders to your co-pilot so I would def recommended anyone giving it a try.CheersRoss

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Yes, there are several solutions for speech recognition, most are payware but a few, like Shoot, are free. I've been using Game Commander myself to great satisfaction (mainly with Falcon 4.0). I never got around to test Voice Buddy, which seems to be rather popular to the FS crew (not sure what it offers that other VR solutions doesn't).However, the speech recognition I'm talking about here is not just to map static phrases to key sequences. Instead, what I would love to see is what VoxATC and FSCom attempts to solve, which is to dynamically recognising my ATC requests and replies. Likely, this would have involve some level of AI or it would be far too rigid. For example, I would like to be able to say just press the send button and say "Boston, request flight level two seven, Beach two niner zero" and have the ATC voice recognition system interpret my request correctly and send a proper response back. That would be impossible with pre-recorded phrase based packages like Shoot, Game Commander and (I think) Voice Buddy.Thanks for the tip though! :-)

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Yes, I echo your whishes, but I think a feature like that, natively supported by FS is not gonna make it to the next version. Maybe FS11-12, it does not seem to be that easy to tackle though, and I wonder how would a feature of this kind include support for all the available languages FS is published on, as far as I know only international flights are controlled in english in my native country, maybe I am wrong.

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Including this feature would not be trivial task for sure. Speech recognition already exist but to integrate it with ATC and write a decent AI is another story of course. As far as languages are concerned I can definitively live with a 'basic Engish set' at first. Not having studied the problem, mind you, I believe a good approach would be to build a good API, allowing 3rd party studios to extend the SR feature with additional languages and extended/more realistic/localised phraseology after release. Maybe MS should even consider "extension packs" for their product? That seems to be a winning concept for alot of other game studios...I would gladly pay more to see this happen! :9

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Might get difficult, I've trouble understanding myself more often than not, especially when I'm tired.I wouldn't expect a computer to do better :)

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There was a good book (or was it an article??) published a couple years ago called "It's Hard to Wreck a Nice Beach" on some of the challenges involved. The title of the book is an example...

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