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jsmcwilliam

FATAL ERROR again!

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My setup is P3D v4 under Windows 10 and the aircract is the new PMDG NGXu. I also have AS and EFB running as well as FS2Crew.

Flying from ESSA to ENGM using the flightplan ESSA AROS4G ARS BEDLA IBGAX EDURI TEKVA ESEBA ESEBA4M ENGM I got a FATAL ERROR approaching ESEBA. This was after ATC had given me an altutude (7000) and approach (ESEBA4M). I was surprised at the altitude clearance because according to the charts I should have been maintaining 10,000 until GM453.  I ignored the FE and continued on my arrival. After a few minutes I was asked to contact Oslo Approach on 118.47, there was no response from Oslo Approach, however, and ATC went completely silent after that. I could still hear the other aircraft speaking to ATC but not the ATC responses. I have repeated the flight with the same result each time.

Is there anyone who can solve this for me. I could redo the flight with the VOX error log active if that would be of any help.

John

P.S. Since going over to the new NGXu VOX has been performing much better and I have been getting descent instructions which match my arrivals. Previously these were always late and I had to request descent which did not always work. This is the first time I have run into problems - I have tried reindexing VOX but that did not help.

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6 hours ago, jsmcwilliam said:

I was surprised at the altitude clearance because according to the charts I should have been maintaining 10,000 until GM453. 

John

i often have similar "clearances" (& where i follow the chart's vnav) which don't result in an FE. Voxatc may get a tad narky wanting you to be "continually" descending when you hold an altitude, but as said never an FE.

6 hours ago, jsmcwilliam said:

I could redo the flight with the VOX error log active

there are many a circumstance that can trigger an FE but yes "logging" can help.

a "reboot" in flight may help, sometimes a "toggle" of the copilot may help.

others may know more about your airport which could be "faulty".

just guessing i realise.


for now, cheers

john martin

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Tried your suggestion but I get the fatal error at the same place, just before ESEBA. I ignore it and Vox continues untill I get the hand over to 118.47 -then it goes silent. I have an error log but it is big. Can I send it to someone?

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John,

I doubt that any of us could make sense of what's in you main logfile, since it is really designed for use by the VOXATC developer. But one thing that you can do is to open the logfile in a text editor like Notepad and search for "fatal error". Then copy about 10 lines from the file around the line with "fatal error" and post those 20 lines here.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of fatal errors in VOXATC 7.42  are cause by malformed airports. Many 3rd party airports are rich in eye candy but take shortcuts when it comes to specifying the geometry of airport. Sometimes one can fix the fatal error by editing the airport's BGL file in Airport Design Editor and recompiling the BGL file. The author of ADE provides modestly priced optional "Pro Key" ADE plugin that allows for checking of common errors like orphaned parking, overlapping taxiway nodes, etc.. All this maybe beyond your level of interest in solving a fatal error at one airport. What version of ENGM are you using? I'm assuming that if you disable it and use the stock version of the airport, that the fatal error does not happen.

Another thing that you can look at is to see whether you have multiple 3rd party versions of a specific airport active in your scenery library. The freeware Little NavMap is very useful for displaying what files are being used by the sim for a given airport. Sometimes, the source of multiple copies of an airport is not that obvious, as often sim add-ons install numerous "corrected" airports as a "favor" to the user. AI Traffic add-ons and also ORBX add-ons such as Vector and ORBX regions are notorious for being so "helpful".

Jay


Jay Bloomfield

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Thanks Jay. I was hoping for a comment from you. The error log leading up to the fatal error was:

87873905 Ins Text set : Fly flight plan
87873905 Prompt disabled
87873905 Prompt Text set :
Instructor State set to ISFlyingProcedure
87873921 Ins Text set : fly the eseba four lima arrival
87873921 Prompt disabled
87873921 Prompt Text set :
Terminated WORLD TRAVEL4982
15:01:36.9029980 BGLFILE 83533.vidx
15:01:36.9049924 BGLFILE 83522.vidx
15:01:38.5910082 Current Position = 59.9901492529924 12.6587511031556 14615.325683593
ATSO exception Enumeration already finished.    at System.Collections.ArrayList.ArrayListEnumeratorSimple.get_Current()
   at com.intworkings.voxatc.ASSAppHandover.SetupVectoredApproachCircleToLand(Runway rwWithApp, Runway rwForWind)
   at com.intworkings.voxatc.ASSAppHandover.SetupCircleToLand()
   at com.intworkings.voxatc.ASSAppHandover.MessageEnd()
   at com.intworkings.voxatc.RadioMessageImpl.Dispatch(RTOperator op)
   at com.intworkings.voxatc.ATSO.HandleIncoming()
   at com.intworkings.voxatc.ATSO.Run()
   at com.intworkings.voxatc.TerminalATSO.Run()
   at com.intworkings.voxatc.ATSOWorker.ActiveRun()
87889405 Ins Text set : FATAL ERROR! disable VoxATC
15:01:51.4875285 Current Position = 59.9930186339167 12.6258285024145 14415.4348086247
15:02:04.4007208 Current Position = 59.9958318282852 12.5929485287766 14212.4393293577
15:02:17.4188097 Current Position = 59.998625944757 12.5599435333915 14019.8147261436
15:02:30.5423625 Current Position = 60.0014116606225 12.5268586944341 13808.5028895628
VADI key pressed event : 37
RSC Key pressed
VADI key released event : 37
15:02:43.6617854 Current Position = 60.0041896773849 12.4937855265288 13585.5760269931
15:02:52.2219932 BGLFILE 80136.vidx
15:02:52.2259830 BGLFILE 90661.vidx
AI Aircraft Count = 9
15:02:56.7902396 Current Position = 60.0069651007833 12.460789519231 13381.8376047919
IN 14:02 From :orbit eighty eight forty six:  sweden center

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

The final section before ATC went silent is:

IN 88109937 Frequency Change 118.475
Instructor State set to ISTuning
Instructor State set to ISArrival
88109952 Prompt Enabled
88109968 Prompt Text set :  oslo approach  sas sixteen twenty nine  with you on eseba four lima  
88109968 Ins Text set : make contact
VADI key pressed event : 157
RSC Key pressed
RSC PTT Key pressed
VASound Play 0
ElevationDataSharp::GetFile Downloading elevation hgt file: N61E018.hgt
SrtmDownloader::DownloadBinaryToFile N61E018.hgt not available on server (maybe all sea)
VADI key released event : 157
Recog :radiomessage : oslo approach sas sixteen twenty nine with you on eseba four lima
IN 14:05 From :sas sixteen twenty nine:  oslo approach sas sixteen twenty nine with you on eseba four lima
OUT 14:05 oslo approach sas sixteen twenty nine with you on eseba four lima
IN 14:05 From :sas sixteen twenty nine:   Terminator

OUT 14:05  Terminator

88118593 Prompt disabled
88118593 Prompt Text set :  oslo approach  sas sixteen twenty nine  with you on eseba four lima  
15:05:32.3778807 Current Position = 59.9745203322341 12.1023748836366 10898.0082267462
15:05:47.0428867 Current Position = 59.970150536771 12.0700377616004 10656.5436284988
VADI key pressed event : 37
RSC Key pressed
VADI key released event : 37
VADI key pressed event : 157
RSC Key pressed
RSC PTT Key pressed
VASound Play 0
VADI key released event : 157
Recog :radiomessage : oslo approach sas sixteen twenty nine with you on eseba four lima
IN 14:06 From :sas sixteen twenty nine:  oslo approach sas sixteen twenty nine with you on eseba four lima
OUT 14:06 oslo approach sas sixteen twenty nine with you on eseba four lima
IN 14:06 From :sas sixteen twenty nine:   Terminator

OUT 14:06  Terminator

15:06:01.6944945 Current Position = 59.965719380776 12.0377940172147 10401.2767623369
15:06:16.3505266 Current Position = 59.9612934398627 12.0056706299979 10169.8212226156
15:06:18.0374623 BGLFILE 78884.vidx
15:06:18.0594031 BGLFILE 78883.vidx
15:06:18.0883259 BGLFILE 78880.vidx
15:06:18.1122620 BGLFILE 78879.vidx
15:06:18.1192433 BGLFILE 78882.vidx
15:06:18.1461714 BGLFILE 78881.vidx
15:06:18.1601338 BGLFILE 82204.vidx
15:06:18.1661182 BGLFILE 82207.vidx
15:06:18.1750938 BGLFILE 89615.vidx
15:06:18.1780857 BGLFILE 89616.vidx
15:06:18.1820754 BGLFILE 79138.vidx
88169546 Ins Text set : Sim Paused
88169546 Prompt Text set :


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As may have become apparent from earlier, I have Orbx Global installed and will try a rerun with Vector disabled. I really want to try and understand the problem. Today I flew ENGMEKCH without any hitches. Its a pity we have a developer who is totally uninterested in supporting this program - which I might add has real potential compared to what is available today. I recently flew ESSAENGM with Vatsim ATC and it was a realistic experience but too often live ATC is not available and that is when Vox becomes an asset.

John

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On 12/23/2019 at 4:04 AM, jsmcwilliam said:

 which I might add has real potential compared to what is available today.

since 2005 ..... but i suspect the "swap" to 64bit has become a "time consuming frustration"

but hey, it's still the benchmark for me, forget comparisons


for now, cheers

john martin

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John,

As I wrote previously, the log files only are of use to the developer. But it looks like there is some problem with the approach frequency at the arrival airport. Is ENGM default or 3rd party? If it's the stock airport I can take a closer look. Let me think about this some more.

Jay

Edited by jabloomf1230

Jay Bloomfield

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Quote

ATSO exception Enumeration already finished.    at System.Collections.ArrayList.ArrayListEnumeratorSimple.get_Current()
   at com.intworkings.voxatc.ASSAppHandover.SetupVectoredApproachCircleToLand(Runway rwWithApp, Runway rwForWind)

VOXATC is generating an error when it tries to set up the approach. The next error message,  InsText, looks like an FSUIPC error where it's trying to to write a string of text to a window, but I'm not versed enough with how VOXATC uses FSUIPC to know whether that's true or not.

Navigraph AIRAC 1913 shows ENGM with both arrival (118.475, 120.45) and director (136.4, backup 119.975)  approach control frequencies. The arrival ATC provides that all aircraft receive the correct separation and speeds and the director ATC  turns and clears the aircraft onto their ILS approaches. I don't believe that VOXATC differentiates between the two approach comm types. To make things more confusing, the stock FSX/P3d4 version of ENGM has 3 slightly different approach frequencies (Gardermoen Sector East-119.975, Gardermoen Sector West-120.450 and Oslo -131.350). Note there is some overlap between the sim's legacy (roughly AIRAC 0612) and present day frequencies. 118.475 is the first approach frequency encountered in the airport file, so VOXATC only  uses that frequency, at least we all think that's what it does.

ORBX FTX Vector only adds a revised airport background for ENGM, which shouldn't impact anything other than flattening a differently shaped area to the airport elevation. Vector does not change anything else contained in the ENGM default airport.

Unfortunately I can't see what's wrong, but vadriver has suggested a workaround for airports where the approach logic  fails in VOXATC:

The solution entails creating a new airport with Airport Design Editor that has the correct frequencies and approaches to match the most recent AIRAC. Maybe you could talk vadriver into making a version of ENGM for you to test.😀

 

 


Jay Bloomfield

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OK - thanks for your thoughts anyway. My ENGM is that which came with P3D v4 + ORBX Global (Base, LC & Vector). In January I intend updating my NavData which is 1901 (+ 1911 which came with the PMDG NGXu) - that may help. The only other alternative is to update my ENGM to third party payware - could that be an alternative?

John

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I just put an ADE file together for ENGM that's updated for AIRAC 1913. Let me just check it some more and I'll send you a download link by PM.


Jay Bloomfield

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This appears to be solved, according to the OP. The solution is unclear,as so many different things were modified from those in the default ENGM BGL file, but it looks like limiting each comm type to one frequency did the trick. Here's what was modified, including items that probably had nothing to do with the FATAL ERROR issue:

  1. Each comm type (tower, approach, ground, ATIS) was limited to one frequency.
  2. The AIRAC 1913 procedure data was added directly to the airport BGL file with ADE, as per vadriver's suggestion.
  3. Taxiways were moved to their real world positions.
  4. Parking space types, locations and airline codes were amended to their real world status.
  5. Duplicate taxi designators  (having two disconnected taxiways both labelled A for example) were eliminated.
  6. Orphaned parking spots and overlapping taxiway nodes were eliminated.
  • Upvote 1

Jay Bloomfield

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2 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

modified from those in the default ENGM BGL file

jay

a short question ...... did the revised afcad replace the default or was it made / placed as an "addon"


for now, cheers

john martin

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As an add-on. Messing with the default APX files is not a great idea, especially if fsaerodata overwrites them periodically. It wasn't until the present version of ADE (1.78) that ADE would even work correctly with updated stock airport files. The new version has a routine that must be run for that case.


Jay Bloomfield

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2 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

As an add-on

jay

matches my thinking ..... voxatc does read the highest priority afcad's approach data (& gates etc.)


for now, cheers

john martin

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I try to write up sim problems and how they were solved as a reference for later when I have most likely forgotten what I did. In this case I have a long history of battling with FATAL ERRORS generated by VoxAtc so when a solution was found (for the time being!) I decided to post it here. The message was clear, FsAeroData updates of Navaids etc are not compatible with either VoxAtc and EFB2.

13-01-2020
There is a problem with both Aivlasoft EFB (missing ILS data) and VoxAtc (Fatal Errors) when approaching destinations. These occurred for me when flying ESSA-ENGM and ESSA-ESGG. The poblem was  initially solved by Jabloom on this forum.

He created an updated BGL file for ENGM suggesting that there were conflicting approach radio frequencies that needed correcting.
Then Aivlasoft replied from their forum and suggested that FsAeroData and their navaids update was not compatible with EFB2.

https://forum.aivlasoft.com/topic/3990-ils-data-missing-still/

I removed the FsAero updates from my system, however, I must add that it was not a simple process and suggest a reading of the FsAeroData manual to find out how to completely remove their navdata files and correct the P3D scenery.cfg file. Aivlasoft also linked me to P3D freeware, World Navaids Package which offered a better way to update and remove conflicts in navdata.

https://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html

I updated my Navgraph cycle, ran the World Navaids Package and then the VoxAtc Indexer. My first flight ESSA-ESGG could be completed free of problems. Time will tell if this result is of a more permanent nature.

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