Hello,

The motherboard I'm using has these spec re PCI and storage.  I'm ordering a 2Tb NVme 2280 drive as my OS/sim/add-on drive.  I need a 2nd drive for data and for storing an image of the primary drive if that's possible going from NVme to SATA III as the data drive.  I'm guessing the transfer rate between my primary NVme and data SATA III will be limited to the SATA III"s maximum rate or less, but I also read when the port is shared this means they don't really 'share the bandwidth' as is stated below in the specs*, but only one can use the bus at a time.  If the latter is true, what happens to transfer rate between NVme and SATA III?

Also, I don't know if it's possible to make a bootable image of a 2Tb NVme drive, on the same size SATA III.  Is it?   

Do you seen any conflicts using 1x2Tb NVme and 1x1Tb SATA III?  It's been awhile since assembling a new box and things have changed!

Thanks in advance

Expansion Slots

PCI Express 3.0 x16

3 x PCIe 3.0 x16 slots (support x16/x0/x4, x8/x8/x4 modes)

PCI Express x1

3 x PCIe 3.0 x1 slots

Storage Devices

SATA 6Gb/s

6 x SATA 6Gb/s ports*
* M.2 slots and SATA ports share the bandwidth.

M.2

2 x M.2 slot (Key M)*
Support up to PCIe 3.0 x4 and SATA 6Gb/s, 2242/2260/2280/22110 storage devices

* M.2 slots and SATA ports share the bandwidth.

 

Without any specifics as to which motherboard, one can only guess.  With the ASUS boards I use, the second M2 slot and one pair of SATA ports are assigned to the same PCIe lanes, so only one or the other may be used.  They don't, AFAIK, "share" the lanes--one or the other must be assigned exclusive access.  So if a second M2 device is installed (either NVMe or SATA 3), the pair of associated physical SATA ports on the side of the mobo will be disabled (but not *all* of the SATA ports).  Other motherboards may do this differently.

If, by "bootable image" you mean a bootable clone of the NVMe drive, yes you can do that if the SATA device is at least as large as the other drive.  Note that "at least as large" means that the actual drive capacity is larger or equal to the other drive's capacity.  One 1TB drive may have a slightly different capacity than another 1TB drive, so just because they are both branded as "1TB" drives doesn't answer the mail on this question.  NVMe and SATA are electrical interface standards--the file system is the same for both.  If "bootable image" means you intend to make an image of the drive with a backup program like OO Diskimage, Acronis, Macrium Reflect etc where you can recover the image to recreate a bootable drive, then yes, you can easily do that as the backup software compresses the data when writing the image, so the image file will generally be smaller than the source drive.

 

 

Thanks for all of that Bob.  Do you know about how much compression, how small a 2TB drive that was say 75% full would compress to?  If it's under 1Tb then I could just use a cheaper 1Tb SSD to retain the image to restore from.   The board I'm using is MSI MPG Z390 Gaming Edge and below is a table of possible M.2 and SATA combinations.   It has two M.2 connections and 6 SATA III.  I plan to have one NVme 2Tb, and one SSD that is dual bootable to Win 7 but can also store an image of the 2Tb NVme as well as room for another 500-700Gb.  I guess I will pick up a 2Tb SATA III drive for this purpose, or a  2nd 2Tb identical NVme unless that causes problems I'm not yet aware of.  Would I be in for any conflicts in terms of how they use the available PCIe interfaces if I did use both M.2 ports?  I don't know how to interpret the table below from the motherboard manual:

M.2 & SATA combination table

Slot	Available SATA connectors
M2_1	PCIe	SATA	PCIe	SATA	PCIe	SATA
M2_2	PCIe	PCIe	SATA	SATA	─	─
SATA1	✓	✓	✓	✓	✓	✓
SATA2	✓	─	✓	─	✓	─
SATA3	✓	✓	✓	✓	✓	✓
SATA4	✓	✓	✓	✓	✓	✓
SATA5	─	─	─	─	✓	✓
SATA6	─	─	✓	✓	✓	✓

(SATA: M.2 SATA SSD, PCIe: M.2 PCIe SSD, ✓: available, ─: unavailable)

If you put NVMe (PCIe) drives into both M2 slots, then you can't use the SATA5 and 6 ports, but SATA 1-4 are available.

Storing your backup image on an internal SSD sure seems wasteful of the resource.  I use an external 10TB HDD (via a USB3 cradle), which allows me to keep the last 5 backups of all my drives, plus a backup of the bulk storage HDD (installers).  And because it's only online while performing a backup, it's much less vulnerable to being corrupted by a bad HDD controller or a virus/malware attack (to include Windows Update).

How much compression you get depends on the nature of the data (e.g. how much is already compressed, how much contiguous free space etc) and on the backup software in use.  I wouldn't count on more than maybe 25% compression.

 

Thanks Bob & Rob that helps a lot. After that I think it makes the most sense for me to use the 2Tb in one M.2 slot as my primary, a 1Tb NVme for the 2nd M.2 slot in a dual boot for all non-sim software I still use on a PC, and pick up a large cheap back up drive or external USB-C or 3 to image each NVme to periodically.   I still have a copy of Paragon but don't know if it can handle NVme drives as well.   

Thanks again

I guess the best practice is to install Win 10 on the primary, then disconnect it from the M.2 slot, then insert the 2nd NVme into the 2nd M.2, install whatever we're installing, then shutdown and reconnect the primary.  Is that the basic step for dual-boot?   I do have a boot utility that edits the boot file so a boot menu pops up when you power up.  Thanks in advance again

Double post

Edited March 2, 20206 yr by Noel
Double post

I read on another thread that it was best to disconnect any drive w/ an OS on it before adding another drive that will also have an OS installed on it.  I did that in with my Win7 install and it worked out fine, with the caveat when you do it this way the other install does now know there is another install in the box, so you must then create a boot menu w/ 3PD app, or just use the boot popup in the BIOS to get to your different OS'.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello,

as Rob has written, installing a second OS to a second drive is well catered for by Windows and does not require any special measures.

It is however, arguably pointless.

Edited March 2, 20206 yr by Reader

15 minutes ago, Reader said:

It is however, arguably pointless.

Perhaps pointless for you, but not here.

I'm not real familiar w/ Win 10.  Do any license options allow one to change out parts and use the same license, for example new motherboard, w/o paying for another license?

 

4 hours ago, Noel said:

Perhaps pointless for you, but not here.

I'm not real familiar w/ Win 10.  Do any license options allow one to change out parts and use the same license, for example new motherboard, w/o paying for another license?

 

 

 MS recognizes that we upgrade our PC's or replace defective hardware.

If activation fails, ring the automated activation telephone line. If automatic activation fails, you will find yourself talking to a human being. They will ask you how many PC's the OS is installed on, you say one, they activate it for you.

Lost count of the times I've had to do this. MS is usually very helpful. No issue as long as the OS is on only one machine. 

 

If this wasnt the case, then every time we had a major component or two fail, we would be buying a new licence, which would be bonkers.

Edited March 2, 20206 yr by martin-w

That's great to know, thanks!  Now, of course, it begs a slightly darker question:  I have a 2nd copy of Win 10 I installed into Bootcamp on my MacBook Pro.   I don't use it, the Win10 install at all and haven't for a couple of years.  Can I delete the partition, and use the license in my new build?

7 hours ago, Noel said:

That's great to know, thanks!  Now, of course, it begs a slightly darker question:  I have a 2nd copy of Win 10 I installed into Bootcamp on my MacBook Pro.   I don't use it, the Win10 install at all and haven't for a couple of years.  Can I delete the partition, and use the license in my new build?

If it's a full retail version of Win 10, then yes you can transfer the license to another computer.  If it's an OEM version, then it's forever tied to the first machine it was installed on, or a replacement-in-kind (e.g. if you replaced the motherboard with the same type after a failure).

 

Thank you for that clarification I appreciate it ;o)

It's time to use conductive material on the CPU to Noctua DH-15S interface.  Is the included Noctua compound (NT-H2) good enough?

Also, what's the recommended method of application?  They say 3-4mm dot, but videos on youtube seem to show a small X or even spreading could be better.

Thanks!

Edited March 6, 20206 yr by Noel