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SOUTHWEST AIRLINE SKIDS OF THE RUNWAY!

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In the snow,at Chicago's Midway,plane skids of the runway, landing,high winds,plane wrecked, 98 pass.one injury,no fire, WHEW!!! Hot story!! More details on the TV VIN

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I used to live not far from Midway when I stayed with my Grandmother for a time back in the 70's. A terrible crash happened out of that airport some years ago. Add to that, the area around the airport is really congested. I took off from there in an ATA 757 a few years back--the sequence went like this--takeoff roll, rotate, busy street. I could swear I saw those drivers ducking as we took off. Details are always sketchy this early (the crash happened two hours ago) but I guess the aircraft broke through the fence and ended up on one of the streets that border the airport (Central Ave). Weather was very bad. -John

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FLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.Just changed channels to CNN, thanx

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IT rests in the middle of Central Ave, a737,again! May have hit a few cars.Still,It could have been a lot worse! I hear a guy calls his wife from the plane,tells her to come and pick him up in the street there,,Of course the cops said no to that,amazing!!. VIN

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It is unfortunate, because WN has a perfect safety record. One can only suspect the cause for the overrun, until the investigation has been completed. But high winds with a snow-covered and fairly short runway and the standard difficult approach at Midway surely will do the trick, if the plane starts to skid across the runway.

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>It is unfortunate, because WN has a perfect safety record.Didn't a 737 end up in a Chevron gas station in Burbank a few years ago?

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Yea, but that was a pilot error. I think part of the problem might be that Southwest has just approved the use of the autobrakes. It might be contributing factor, because pilots might not be as accustomed to the autobrakes as they should be.Pat

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I'm not sure I understand your distinction.Anyways, do you have any idea what the weather was like in Midway this evening? I don't know if you've ever flown into Midway, but on a good day, any plane that lands or takesoff there will almost go into those walls, let alone a night like this. I'm just glad I didn't have to go there tonight.

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Yes, it was also a Southwest Airline 737. You can look it up on www.planecrashinfo.com for a summary of the NTSB report. It happened March 5th, 2000.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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Oh Dear....First it was cars skidding off the highways, now it's planes skidding off the runways, and it's all because of the severe winter weather during these winter months!! :( Winter weather is probably the most hazardous form of weather to all forms of transportation worldwide.I hope that no one's hurt in this accident!!Cheers,

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Is it usual practice to land in a heavy snowstorm? Poor little boy.Peter Sydney Australia

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As long as the runway is demeed open and the ground crews report no problems with braking action, they'll come in. As soon as the NTSB can get out there, I'm sure more details will emerge. It's rarely one major error that causes these things, it's generally a string of minor errors that just add into a catastrophic result. For no we don't know what happened, other than the plane went off the end of the runway into the roadway. Now the NTSB gets to sort out what went wrong. That's a processes of figuring out what DIDN'T happen so they can rule it out. Questions you're gonna hear will most likely include; "Did the brakes fail?", "Was braking action poor?", "Did the plane land long", "Was the plane going faster than it should?". We shall see in time.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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>As long as the runway is demeed open and the ground crews>report no problems with braking action, they'll come in.That's a little idealistic. Most airlines allow operations on runways down to braking action poor. Only when braking action is reported as nil will people refuse the runway. Even if a runway has been plowed and tested with a mu meter, that good runway is only good like that for an instant, the moment the trucks are off and the planes start coming in, the runway is going downhill again on a snowy day like that. Back in the winter of 2003, a plane ran off the runway in Cleveland. Though a good runway would not have stopped that one from happening, the city immediately plowed that runway *after* the accident, *before* the FAA and NTSB had a chance to show up. People are people. I have a feeling that there will be new rules regarding what to do with runway braking actions after this one, since someone finally got killed.

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I really feel it for the devastated family and other injured, but also for the flight crew, it must be awful to know you were piloting an aircraft that ended up taking a child's life, whether you're at fault or not. I pray strength for all to get thru this.regards,Markhttp://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/mar.../sup_banner.jpghttp://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/markrey/lsd2.jpgXPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1GIG/X700pro256

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An ATP friend of mine and I were talking about this , this morning:1. The minimum runway needed for this aircraft 4500 feet2. Length of runway from touchdown zone to end 4900 feet Now factor in , Gusty conditions, 400 foot ceiling, unknown braking action, inches of snow on the runway, tailwind, RVR of 3500 feet, , no autothrottle on the aircraft, and I guess the flight crew must have thought that this was going to be their lucky day, cause they would need it all. Apparently, they guessed wrong.

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Well said,and how any one not agree with that.This time of the year,with Christmas coming ,its just awful.Every Christmas for that family will be marked by sadness and the absence of a loved one.So to that memory for as you say, the Pilots.Also to include all those people involved with the rescue,and the other dirty,cold work. Again ,when these things happen in a plane,on an airport its very big news.Yet,often in small print,in the police reports in some newspapers,all over the country,accidents happen every day,and night.I don't know the numbers of people who died on the hyways last year,but I do know they do,in large numbers.Certainly ,"drunks,potheads,and more frequently bad weather,bad drivers,and bad cars ,account for this National nightmare on the Road. We know "Road Rage is not far behind as a contributing cause.Accidents do happen however,be it flying,driving,or any other human activity,and when they do ,its sad,for all.VIN

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First of all an observation by some of the posters here: Having just experienced that same storm here in KC the winds were almost ZERO. At the time of the accident at MDW I believe the winds were under 10 kts. Snow storms like that which last for sustained periods of time usually have calm winds, I say usually. I believe this was the case here as far as the winds were concerned.Also, I also think SWA policy is no autothrottle(s) are used on their aircraft.I think that we're going to find that this was a simple overrun case here. Any time you have a short runway that is contaminated, these things can happen.The bottom line is we also don't know any other contrbuting factors which may play out here, so we're just guessing right now.

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>Well said,and how any one not agree with that.This time of>the year,with Christmas coming ,its just awful.Every Christmas>for that family will be marked by sadness and the absence of a>loved one.So to that memory for as you say, the Pilots.Also to>include all those people involved with the rescue,and the>other dirty,cold work.> Again ,when these things happen in a plane,on an>airport its very big news.Yet,often in small print,in the>police reports in some newspapers,all over the>country,accidents happen every day,and night.I don't know the>numbers of people who died on the hyways last year,but I do>know they do,in large numbers.Certainly ,"drunks,potheads,and>more frequently bad weather,bad drivers,and bad cars ,account>for this National nightmare on the Road. We know "Road Rage is>not far behind as a contributing cause.>Accidents do happen however,be it flying,driving,or any other>human activity,and when they do ,its sad,for all.>VIN> You left out people talking on their cellphones and swerving all over the road.... :)

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Of course your correct Bob,here in the boneyard ,there is no restriction on use of cell phone,that led to no use of turn indicators. The don't wear helmets on bikes also.Lets face it,somethings will kill you,a matter of time.How?,is best saved for the end Now me, Well it will probley be at the hands of a jealous husband,when I'm 95,or so! EAT, DRINK,AND BE MERRY,FOR TOMORROW YOU MAY BE...... CHEERS! VIN! :-beerchugPS: WHEN DEATH SMILES AT YOU ,ALL YOU CAN DO IS SMILE BACK :-sun1

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WHEN DEATH SMILES, TRY TO KEEP IT THAT WAYWay before 9/11, I was doing serious thinking about a system that could stop truck bombs without destroying aircraft. Maybe the wrong person is thinking now.FLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

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I've read a few reports that he landed on 31C which is 6500 feet. What a lot of the "experts" are bemoaning is the extremely short overrun at the end, due to the lack of any expansion room. Never been there, but the news footage certainly shows that. Interestingly enough, it was commented by one, that what is needed is a type of what we truckers call a runaway ramp. These are filled with a type of pea gravel at a deep depth, which will bog down a runaway truck (usually towards the bottom of a long steep hill). Sounds like just the thing for a place like Midway. Fitz

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Here are the NOTAM'S for KMDW CHICAGO MIDWAY INTL, A0582/04 (12/042) - MIDDLE MARKER (ILS) 13C ILS MM DCMSN 20 DEC 09:01 UNTIL UFN A0564/05 (12/030) - APPROACH LIGHTING SYSTEM UNSERVICEABLE 13C WIE UNTIL UFN A0562/05 (12/025) - GLIDE PATH (ILS) UNSERVICEABLE 31C WIE UNTIL UFN A0561/05 (12/024) - LOCALIZER (ILS) UNSERVICEABLE 31C WIE UNTIL UFN A0560/05 (12/026) - RUNWAY ALIGNMENT INDICATOR LIGHTS UNSERVICEABLE 31C WIE UNTIL UFN A0554/05 (12/019) - RUNWAY CLOSED 13C/31C WIE UNTIL UFN A0550/05 (12/016) - RUNWAY CLOSED 13R/31L WIE UNTIL UFN A0550/04 (12/008) - LOCATOR, OUTER, (ILS) NOT AVAILABLE RWY 31C ILS COMPASS LOCATOR THE OUTER MARKER DECOMMISSIONED WIE UNTIL UFN A0549/05 (12/015) - RUNWAY CLOSED 13L/31R WIE UNTIL UFN A0530/04 (FDC 4/2955) - RNAV (GPS) RWY 13C, ORIG... LNAV MDA 1100/HAT 489 ALL CATS. VIS CAT D 1 1/2. CIRCLING CATS A/B/C MDA 1160/HAA 540. TEMPORARY CRANE 848 MSL 849 FEET NW OF RWY 22R. WIE UNTIL UFN A0527/05 (11/105) - EON TACAN UNSERVICEABLE WIE UNTIL UFN A0481/03 (FDC 3/9397) - FI/T CHICAGO MIDWAY INTL, CHICAGO, IL. VOR/DME RNAV OR GPS RWY 22L, AMDT 3B... VOR/DME RNAV PORTION NA. WIE UNTIL UFN A0437/04 (FDC 4/0610) - INSTRUMENT APPROACH PROCEDURE CHANGED RNAV (GPS) RWY 22R, ORIG... LNAV MDA 1100/HAT 488 ALL CATS. VIS CAT D 1 1/2. CIRCLING CATS A/B/C MDA 1160/HAA 540. MINIMUM ALTITUDE CIDIG 1420. EXARE TO RW22R: 3.07 DEGREES, TCH 55. TEMPORARY CRANE 848 MSL 849 FEET NW OF RWY 22R. WIE UNTIL UFN A0436/04 (FDC 4/0608) - INSTRUMENT APPROACH PROCEDURE CHANGED RNAV (GPS) RWY 13L, ORIG... LNAV MDA 1100/HAT 491 ALL CATS. VIS CAT D 1 1/2. CIRCLING CATS A/B/C MDA 1160/HAA 540. TEMPORARY CRANE 848 MSL 849 FEET NW OF RWY 22R. WIE UNTIL UFN A0041/05 (FDC 5/0362) - INSTRUMENT APPROACH PROCEDURE CHANGED ILS RWY 4R, AMDT 9C. ILS OR LOC/DME RWY 13C, ORIG. ILS OR LOC/DME RWY 31C, ORIG. RNAV (GPS) RWY 4L, ORIG. RNAV (GPS) RWY 4R, ORIG. RNAV (GPS) RWY 31C, ORIG. RNAV (GPS) RWY 31R, ORIG. NDB RWY 4R, AMDT 12C. CIRCLING CATS A/B/C MDA 1160/HAA 540. TEMPORARY CRANE 848 FEET MSL 849 FEET NW OF RWY 22R. WIE UNTIL UFN 12/031 - TMPA SEE ATCCC MSG WIE UNTIL 09 DEC 23:59 11/032 - TOWER 883 (289 AGL) 5.5 ESE LGTS OTS (ASR 1063456) WIE UNTIL 10 DEC 15:00FDC 4/1269 - 4/1269 CANCELLED BY FDC 5/9473 ON 10/14/05 12:07

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While the runway is 6,500 feet - the "Landing Length" is 5,826 feet due to the displaced threhold and obstructions in the approach path.http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0512/00081ILD31C.PDFAlso here is the METAR from the FAA Preliminary Report:WEATHER: 0115 11007KT 1/2SM SN FZFG VV003 M04/M05 A3006 R31C/4500V5007 kts tailwind, 1/2 mile visibility in snow. Not sure what the 4500V500 means. Anyone?KMDW is one of many airports in the US which has NO overrun capacity - As near as I can tell from the satellite photos is there is about 170 feet beyond the cross taxiways. The street / intersection is less than 150 meters from the end of the runway - about 80 meters from the ILS antennas the plane took out.Everyone loves these inner city airports - but there is no protection for the public or the passengers if an aircraft goes long on landing at airports like KMDW, KBUR, KDAL - or many others.These airports turn what should be a relatively minor overrun into a major accident. I don't think a gravel trap would have done much in this case because it would have to be very short - the recommended length is 500M minimum - and it probably would have been frozen solid in that weather.

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>Also here is the METAR from the FAA Preliminary Report:>>WEATHER: 0115 11007KT 1/2SM SN FZFG VV003 M04/M05 A3006>R31C/4500V500>>7 kts tailwind, 1/2 mile visibility in snow. Not sure what the>4500V500 means. Anyone?That's the RVR. it's the visibility in feet, the V means variable. So it says that Runway 31C had a visibility ranging from 4500 feet to 500 feet.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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