Help! New build Boot Issues

[martin-w 3,235]

A few thoughts. Sorry if some have been addressed.

Is your cooler wired correctly? You say fans are working, but if the fans aren't working, initial rpm is too low, or are wired incorrectly the motherboard can think there is a potential lack of cooling and the board will cycle on and off. A cheap air cooler will eliminate the AIO variable. 

Don't wire the AIO to any kind of fan controller, especially the one that came with your case. Wire your case fans to the headers on the board. Not the fan hub that came with your case. 

Some modern motherboards allow the BIOS to be flashed without power connected. If so, try updating your BIOS. Sometimes  low fan RPM settings are set by default in the BIOS, and the board is fooled into thinking the fans aren't running and so the board cycles on and off.

Bad CPU! Or bent motherboard pins. 

CPU 8 pin connector bad or not plugged in properly. Some new to building PC's forget to plug them in.

Make sure 8 pin CPU connector is properly connected and that the connector itself isn't faulty. Check header on the board too. Try a spare 8 pin cable if its a modular PSU. 

Bad PSU! Just because the PSU is firing up means nothing. You can buy a cheap PSU tester that will tell you if all of the rails are providing the voltages they should. It wont, however, tell you how the PSU is functioning under load. Feel free to try your lower wattage old PSU. The fact that the wattage is merely 600 watts wont matter for testing.

Possibly buy a cheap PSU tester. I have used mine numerous times to check PSU's. Try your old PSU. 

Completely disconnect your front panel connector from the motherboard, so that the case on off switch is isolated for testing. Operate the PSU from the switch on the board. 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by martin-w

[regis9 4,014]

13 hours ago, martin-w said:

Is your cooler wired correctly?

Thanks for the response.  I ended up taking it into a local computer store today for them to try and diagnose what’s going on (first time I’ve ever had to do that).  They tested my PSU and confirmed all is working properly there.  The crux of this is that it seems once the motherboard goes into the case it stops working properly.

The cooler is wired to the motherboard connector specified for water coolers, not the fan connector.  The fans themselves are hard wired into the cooler.

13 hours ago, martin-w said:

Completely disconnect your front panel connector from the motherboard, so that the case on off switch is isolated for testing. Operate the PSU from the switch on the board.

I haven’t hooked up the front panel connector.

 

[Tektolnes 184]

Should your AIO be connected to the CPU_Fan connector on the motherboard? That's the way my AIO (Arctic Liquid Freezer II) is connected anyway. 

[G-RFRY 1,712]

A system can boot and run without a cooler connected but will get hot, still sounds like a short on the case-MB, Try insulating from the case with rubber washers or pads and most important do not overtighten MB can be warped by this. 

[martin-w 3,235]

Quote

Some modern motherboards allow the BIOS to be flashed without power connected. If so, try updating your BIOS. Sometimes  low fan RPM settings are set by default in the BIOS, and the board is fooled into thinking the fans aren't running and so the board cycles on and off.

 

Correction to this above.

What I actually meant to say, is that low fan RPM detection is on by default in some motherboards. So if your CPU cooler fans are running at a low RPM when you try to boot up, the motherboard detects this and cycles. Had it happen with a Noctua cooler once, the big, slow RPM fans baffled the BIOS and it wouldn't boot. 

Probably not your issue, but felt I should correct my error. 

 

Quote

The crux of this is that it seems once the motherboard goes into the case it stops working properly.

 

Ditch the stupid Case. What make is it? 

Screws? Namely component screws! Are you using screws that are too long for the PSU? And thus they are shorting. It is possible, given the protections in modern components, for the PSU to not be damaged, but just cycle. 

What about other screws in your case. Is there an issue with one of the screws that attaches the motherboard to the motherboard tray? does it have an oversized head? 

Simplest solution if it looks like the case is the issue.... try a different case. 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by martin-w

[regis9 4,014]

Thanks, yes I’ve confirm the correct screws (double confirmed at the computer shop I took it to).  I think as long as nothing else comes back I will ditch the case and buy a new one.  For the PSU screws, all testing this time around was done with the motherboard outside of the case.

The case is a Corsair Icue 465X RGB Mid-Tower ATX Smart Case.  I couldn’t find anything through a google search with others having an issue with this case so I’m still perplexed as to how this could be causing an issue but it does look to be the common factor.  I would just think that with a common ATX design a case shouldn’t be able to trash a motherboard with one power up.

Edited August 16, 2020 by regis9

[vortex681 806]

On 8/16/2020 at 2:21 PM, regis9 said:

I would just think that with a common ATX design a case shouldn’t be able to trash a motherboard with one power up.

It shouldn’t. I’ve had 2 instances of brass mounting pillars shorting the MB and neither did any permanent damage - I may have been lucky, of course. Although it won’t help you at the moment, if you decide to build another system, always connect all the parts together and turn it on outside the case on an insulated pad. That way you’ll know all of the components work before final assembly in the case. If it doesn’t start up, it’s easier to fault-find and swap out components if they’re all easily accessible on your workbench.

Edited August 17, 2020 by vortex681

[regis9 4,014]

Yes that was a good lesson learned that I will take forward.  I did that the second time around which really seems to confirm the case as the issue.

[martin-w 3,235]

As Mr Vortex said.

And its fine to use the motherboard box.

Don't whatever you do put the board on top of the anti static bag though. The bags are desighned to protect the contents but actually encourage issues with static if the board is on top of the bag.

[regis9 4,014]

Thanks, i have to admit that’s the first time I’ve heard that about anti static bags...yikes!  I’ve been using them as static safe surfaces my whole life.

I’ll use a cardboard box going forward, that’s one thing I have a lot of from all of this 🙂

Edited August 20, 2020 by regis9

[martin-w 3,235]

On 8/20/2020 at 3:27 PM, regis9 said:

Thanks, i have to admit that’s the first time I’ve heard that about anti static bags...yikes!  I’ve been using them as static safe surfaces my whole life.

I’ll use a cardboard box going forward, that’s one thing I have a lot of from all of this 🙂

 

Yep. They act like a Faraday Cage. Static electricity is conducted across the surface of the bag, thus protecting the contents inside. So if the motherboard is placed on top of the bag, its sitting on a highly conductive surface.

[regis9 4,014]

I picked up my computer from the shop today and had a chance to chat with the owner who had worked on it.  Through swapping out parts etc he was able to confirm that it’s another dead Motherboard.  The cpu and the rest is fine.  He could not find anything in the case that should be causing the issue nor did he find anything wrong with my install work.

With this confirmation I’ve started the return process again for the motherboard.  In the meantime i bought a new case on sale from newegg (https://www.newegg.ca/black-fractal-design-define-7-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811352110?Item=N82E16811352110) and ordered a different motherboard (ASUS ROG Maximus XII Hero Z490).  Despite him not finding any issue with the case i don’t want to take the chance and actually i like this case more than the original one I bought (more space and less flashing lights).

Hopefully that’s  enough degrees of separation from my previous issues and I’ll be able to finally get this thing up and running later this week!

Edited August 25, 2020 by regis9

[martin-w 3,235]

"Everything else is fine"

Were they confident that the PSU was okay and did they test voltage on all rails?

A very mysterious occurence. Reminds me of an issue I had here in the UK. Crackling/arching from socket on wall intermittently when I flicked the switch on the wall. Thought it was the socket, so being experienced with electrics, replaced it. Few weeks later same again, so I replaced it again. Was baffled why  RCD in the consumer unit didn't trip.

Some time later, same again, arching when I switched on at wall. Was getting annoyed now. So ran an extension cable to another socket. Few weeks later all seemed well. So I replaced the socket again.

After a while, same issue but this time it blew my surge protector and my PSU. So replaced the PSU assuming that was the issue. Phew, I thought, solved it.

Month or so later, more arching at wall. Blew PSU and surge protector again. So I thought to hell with it, changed the PSU AND the motherboard.

Problem solved. It was the word not allowed motherboard that was causing the socket on the wall to arch out and ultimately killing the PSU.

Have absolutely no idea why the RCD or even MCB in the consumer unit didn't trip, or how a motherboard could cause a twin socket on the wall to arch out when the switch was thrown.

 

[regis9 4,014]

Thanks Martin, yes they did test the PSU and said it was provide proper power.  I’m not sure what you mean by all rails?  They did test the various power output cables.

You do have me wondering now, is there any risk that the PSU could have a fault leading to this that isn’t easily detectable?  This is my PSU:

https://www.newegg.ca/seasonic-focus-plus-850-gold-ssr-850fx-850w/p/N82E16817151188?Item=N82E16817151188

The shipping box that this came in was a bit damaged however the PSU box itself appeared to be fine, but now I’m wondering...

Edited August 27, 2020 by regis9

[martin-w 3,235]

There are two types of PSU. Multi-rail and single rail. Multi rail have 3v 5v but then multiple 12v rails protected by OCP circuits  (Over Current Protection). Yours is single rail I believe, most are these days. But that single rail is divided into 3v 5v and 12v sub rails. Normally when you test a PSU you use a PSU tester to make sure you are getting the required voltage on all rails. Why I suggested a cheap PSU tester earlier. Presumably the guys that looked at your PC will have done this. What a cheap PSU tester won't do is tell you what the unit is doing under load. For load testing specialist equipment is required.

PSU's can damage motherbords. Im not saying that's your issue but its not impossible. The guys that tested your PSU may have tested it thoroughly, under load, and deemed it in full working order. 

A damaged box isn't an issue. They are quite shock resistant. 

If you are worried, I'm sure Seasonic would test it for you. Simply a case of contacting them and explaining your issue. PSU manufacturers are usually pretty good. they may even send you a replacement if they think its possibly an issue.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by martin-w