Displayed FPS values are not your real FPS in MSFS

[Gabe777 132]

9 minutes ago, Hippo said:

Some people, and I include myself, find it just as enjoyable, sometimes even more so, to tweak settings and squeeze out that last sliver of fps vs visual quality.  I.e. looking inside the cowling can be just as fun as looking out of the window.

Beware, it can become quite addictive, in an OCD sort of way ;).

Wait until someone gets under the hood and finds the equivalent of the .cfg file. All hell will again, break loose !

Mind you I would like to sharpen up the cockpit shadows. They're worse than X plane s.

[Akila 39]

3 hours ago, Hippo said:

I've been using MSI Afterburner to benchmark, and I've seen nothing to make think that the readings I'm getting aren't accurate.

Well, I got news for you. they are not accurate in MSFS.
Based on what you claiming that it is? 1st post shows you two uses cases clearly showing they are not.

Can you provide inputs of your test results on those use cases i posed that could refute my claims (better if you can provide a video like i did)?

  

59 minutes ago, Gabe777 said:

You have to use the Dev Mode to show FPS all the time until you get used to it.

I spent a dozen hours thinking I'd found an amazing trick to double FPS by opening the weather engine.

When I realised, I crawled back into my shell for 48 hours, had a little cry... And then deleted as many posts as I could find.... Oh, and the videos I'd put on YouTube...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴💔

care sharing your Youtube Video?

Edited August 23, 2020 by Akila

[Hippo 34]

11 minutes ago, Akila said:

Well, I got news for you. they are not accurate in MSFS.
Based on what you claiming that it is? 1st post shows you two uses cases clearly showing they are not.

Two things:

1. Re-read my post.

2. Get over yourself.

[flyinion 280]

1 hour ago, Gabster said:

It shows the FPS of the fastest Window - in this case ATC. Stop watching your fps and start watching outside the aircraft 🙂

I have, was just pointing out the behavior of EVGA Precision and saying I wasn't sure how afterburner behaved vs it.  Precision will put a display in both windows and say that they're now getting 1000's of fps.

[flyinion 280]

delete, dup

Edited August 23, 2020 by flyinion

[Akila 39]

46 minutes ago, Hippo said:

Two things:

1. Re-read my post.

2. Get over yourself.

i quested your post, so obviously i read it. it was very short by nature and there were no details in it to support your claim in regards to MSFS apart from your own feeling.
my post shows how it is not reliable in MSFS (showed you two uses cases), if you still want to use it ignoring the finding, be my guest. no one is stooping you.
my post is aimed for those who actually open to listen 🙂

P.S. here is your post: you tell me what details you can understand from it that it is reliable in MSFS apart from your own personal feelings and some other gaming benchmarks
you might have done in the past...

 

  

43 minutes ago, flyinion said:

I have, was just pointing out the behavior of EVGA Precision and saying I wasn't sure how afterburner behaved vs it.  Precision will put a display in both windows and say that they're now getting 1000's of fps.

I personally did not try the EVGA Precision tool, so i can't comment on that.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Akila

[Hippo 34]

4 hours ago, flyinion said:

Try popping out a window. Not sure how afterburner will react since evga now has its own tool and I use it but theirs started reporting 1000’s of FPS in both main and the popped out display lol. 

I have now tried doing this, and agree with you that the displayed fps incorrectly shoots up.  I have no requirement to pop out windows, so had not tried this previously.

I stand by my original statement, which if read precisely, refers to my specific, and limited experimentation.  It is not my intention to get into arguments with anyone, I was just describing my own experience.

https://ibb.co/5Y9ctpj
https://ibb.co/hYkyX1R
https://ibb.co/S34DM6R

[Hippo 34]

1 hour ago, Akila said:

i quested your post, so obviously i read it

Actually, what you seem to have done, is to have read way too much into it.

Have a nice day.

[Akila 39]

2 hours ago, Hippo said:

.I stand by my original statement, which if read precisely, refers to my specific, and limited experimentation.  It is not my intention to get into arguments with anyone, I was just describing my own experience.

https://ibb.co/5Y9ctpj
https://ibb.co/hYkyX1R
https://ibb.co/S34DM6R

well, your screenshots you submitted do not reveal any new information supporting or refuting my claims.
on majority of operation in the SIM as you can read in my post and also as you can see in my YouTube movie i shared,
there isn't any mismatch between the internal DEV mode FPS counter and the MSI AB, we don't have disagreement on there.

our disagreement was, that I provided two uses cases on which it is not reliable, hence you can't trust it since it could show false number in other unknown cases,
while initially you insinuated that it is reliable in all cases (again, based on your one line vague reply).
the two uses cases that we know as of now (who knows how many are out there we yet to discover) that  the FPS values are inaccurate on external counters (NVIDIA Hud / MSI AB) are:
1. if you pop-out a window
2. flying in condense area where my true FPS was 16FPS (dev mode FPS counter showed 16FPS  and it really felt like 16FPS) , MSI afterburner / RivaStatistics and Nvidia Hud both showed fluctuating FPS between 26-34.

my point is and that is hard to argue with. 
Once there is a case or two which the FPS counter values/numbers are not reflecting reality because of an action that was taken or a condition in the game (regardless if it's a bug or not),
for one: Who know what else or other unknown parameters could change the FPS values of those tools shown on the SIM screen (we just saw it is not a defiant / absolute)
2nd: once there is one or more cases in which the values are not real, it becomes no longer a defiant absolute FPS values/numbers you can relay on depicting your true FPS in the SIM as you never know if what you seeing is true or distorted.
(unless you constantly comparing it with the internal FPS counter,
but in that case, what's the point of using the external tool if you always need to validate it's values against the Dev mode FPS counter because you have a doubt)

2 hours ago, Hippo said:

Actually, what you seem to have done, is to have read way too much into it.

there wasn't anything to much to read 🙂, it was one line that was very vague. 🙂
i was thought at University during my youth days, never spare on details when trying to prove a point.
you can't expect a person to fully understand you or understand what you meant based on one line, unfortunately we can't read minds yet.
unless you want them to work based on assumptions.
but that is a whole topic by itself of how to communicate, etc. and we digress from the original topic.

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Akila

[TacomaSailor 191]

I spent 50+-years, starting with NASA in 1969, measuring computer performance and human interaction with online systems (graduate degrees in psychology, statistics, and computer sciences) and find the arguments here, regarding FPS, to be quite similar to those I participated in during that last 50-years.  I dealt with dispute resolution where customers, users, vendors, support personal, designers, etc EACH had their subjective measures, opinions, and of course, desires. There was frequently a big mis-match in desires, expectations, and observations and it was my job to bring the parties to a common understanding of their computer experience. 

What I hear in this discussion is:

I have a series of measurements, each taken by a reputable tool

I am confused by the differences

I will believe the one(s) that support my desired goals/opinions) ( e.g. flight sim 2020 is a resource hog)

I will find technical reasons to disbelieve measurements that do not support my believes

I will argue vehemently to sustain my opinions/believes

!!!!

I've been a flight sim enthusiast since the earliest days at Meigs Field and have built at least a dozen PC's to support the hobby.  I tweak, test, and obsess over frame rates.  

But, in the end I know the ONLY thing that really matters is my subjective enjoyment of the flying experience.  My observations of the FPS counter (no matter the source and I've used/use all of them) can be entertaining and can lead me to making more/different tweaks.  But, deep in my subjective heart - I am currently perfectly happy with my 28 - 30 FPS flying around San Diego and Puget Sound in the 152 at 4,000' using mostly high and ultra settings (1080p).  

Sure, there is an occasional stumble, drop out, stutter, and pop-in but 99% of the time I see glorious scenery, clouds,  and AC. I don't really care if Afterburner is saying 35 and Developer is saying 21 - 'cause the scenery and flying experience is such a vast improvement over my carefully tuned FSX.

All this technical discussion is fun and enlightening - but in the final analysis - What our eyes see and our brains perceive is all that matters. 

I'm happy with 30 FPS no matter what any counter tells me.

AND... I will be ugrading to a i5-9600K (from my i3-9100F) and to at least a 2060 type GPU from my GTX 1650 because all my cores and the GPU are at 100% - 100% of the time. 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by TacomaSailor
spelling / grammar

[united001 126]

I admire and appreciate the tedious, though fun, work put in to this matter of FPS by all who have participated. Now I don't have to. I have been using the X-box widget and find myself mesmerized by the numbers instead of enjoying without distraction that I can now set volumetric clouds to ultra. I finally turned the monitor off and flew the default Beechking twin prop from Bend, Oregon or Portland, most of the trip at 12,000 just above a wonderful, full, thick unbroken and relentless overcast that had no breaks, no stutters. Nothing but a representation of mother nature aloft that I never-ever thought I could virtually see and enjoy. Even having to come down through altitude to a massive Portland area early evening overcast to land on 28R was a thing of beauty (as was my touchdown!.) Seriously, thank you all, I think I'll not look at FPS again unless a problem arises.
United001  

Edited August 23, 2020 by united001

[WingRider 0]

On 8/22/2020 at 4:54 AM, Moria15 said:

I know this may be verging towards heresy, but over the years, I have chased FPS incessantly through all the flight sims, but so far, in this one, I haven't even looked at it because every flight. no matter whether over city, country, water, whatever, at whatever height, it's always been smooth and no stutters.

I don't have a killer machine,  in fact I have i7-8700 3.2 gHz, 32gig ram, operate of good old Hard drives, no ssd in sight and I use my native resolution on my monitor of 1920 x 1080 HD with a GTX 1060 card in it, but with my settings ranging between High and Ultra,  nothing has stopped this being smooth and I seriously couldn't tell you what FPS I am getting in either GA or tubes.  In fact this has been the ONLY Flight sim that hasn't crashed immediately on loading up Heathrow in a tube 🙂

After all the hassles over the years with FSX, P3D and XP in chasing configs and tuning and spending weeks just getting the word not allowed thing to mostly fly, this has been awesome..  load it, add the controllers and fly and enjoy 🙂

Graham

I am so jealous. I downloaded and installed the sim as soon as it hit midnight release day on the US east coast. As of today (8/28) having done very little else other than catching a few catnaps, i have only been able to get a plane in the air twice, once for about a half hour, once for about 1.5 hours. Both those flights had problems, but I could figure out and work through some of those. What I have had no success with is solving why the program usually crashes either before I can  even get it set up and hit the  "Fly Now" button., or at the end of the runway when I test the controls, and am about ready to takeoff. I've done everything that  the support team listed to do on the canned response sheet they sent me after I filed a ticket, and then they promptly listed my issue as solved -- I wish! Well, everything except finally uninstalling and doing a clean boot reinstall. Was saving that 'cause I was under the impression that there was going to be the first update/patch released today. Well not waiting another week.

My system almost very similar to yours except I have the I7 7700, but then I have a 1 TB SSD running on the PCIE bus, and a 2070 RTX Super graphic card. Did a clean install of Windows when I changed out my drive c:/ about a month ago in prep for this. Haven't  installed much of anything else other than Microsoft 365 since then because I wanted to install FS on a pretty clean system. Oh yes, also installed the game day drivers from nVidia.

Like  I said, totally jealous!!!

[Steve Dra 7,605]

On 8/23/2020 at 11:03 AM, TacomaSailor said:

But, in the end I know the ONLY thing that really matters is my subjective enjoyment of the flying experience.

Perhaps the most pure statement of finality to date.

This is why I posted this one earlier in hopes of reminding everyone that in the end, its what you subjectively get out of it.

I also posted a while back that tweaking is a hobby all unto itself, and while I do believe that tweaking is necessary to achieve my subjective enjoyment of the sim, I also only tweak to enhance my simming experience, not to tweak to achieve 1 FPS more that I'll never notice (or wont significantly enhance my simming experience).

I can't help but reckon all this to when in my early adult life, I considered myself an audiophile.... back when CD players 1st hit the market.

I struggled to decide if I wanted the Onkyo with its superior Signal to Noise ratio, over the Bose....with the whopping difference of .5db.  I actually based my decision as if I could actually hear the difference (which of course nobody could).  But I could tell my friends of the superior SNR they were (or weren't) hearing from my new CD player....actually trying to hear hiss in the silent parts of a song, from a CD that was digitally recorded (we were so silly back then).

I'm not saying all this to demean the serious nature of a finely tuned system, but I also want to point out that unless you're really getting bad performance, and generally happy with what you're seeing, spend time in the sim enjoying it for a while. 🙂

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Steve Dra
spelling