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737_800

DLSS/RT Update for MSFS?

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Hi,

do you goes see it coming that msfs take advantage of the new nvidia dlss and rt technology? Is it even possible to implent these features into the game? Just imagen the perfomance...

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As much as I would like this to be the case because they are nVidia  specific features I don't have a lot of hope in seeing it in the future.  Maybe if DX13 adds some of this and the are still at the time doing overhauls of that scale to the simulator maybe we will see Ray Tracing added.

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Would DX12 give us a similar boost of perfomance or is it rudimentary? I hope they will at least update dx12 in the near future.

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3 minutes ago, 737_800 said:

Would DX12 give us a similar boost of perfomance or is it rudimentary? I hope they will at least update dx12 in the near future.

DX12 in theory should provide a decent enough boost as to how much it depends when we get it and what hardware people are running.  I am not well versed enough in the intricacies of DX12 to speak to any of the overall benefits that would be gained.

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DX12 could bring up significant gain IF and I say IF implemented properly. It will also enable the possibility of ray tracing and DLSS. This is where the performance gain will be significant.


Claude Desrosiers

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2 minutes ago, pjs37 said:

speak to any of the overall benefits that would be gained.

No worries, I don't need to know EVERYTHING, just if we'll get more fps 😄

1 minute ago, fogboundturtle said:

DX12 could bring up significant gain IF and I say IF implemented properly. It will also enable the possibility of ray tracing and DLSS. This is where the performance gain will be significant.

Ah I see. RT and DLSS are linked to DX12. So all the DX11 Games/Simulations don't support it, but all supporting DX12 will?

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1 minute ago, 737_800 said:

No worries, I don't need to know EVERYTHING, just if we'll get more fps 😄

Ah I see. RT and DLSS are linked to DX12. So all the DX11 Games/Simulations don't support it, but all supporting DX12 will?

correct it will also offload rasterization to the RT cores. So the game would look better, would have better CPU usage and higher GPU usage.  So it will be a win/win on all categories.  So in theory, no more CPU bottleneck with DX12.

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Claude Desrosiers

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1 minute ago, fogboundturtle said:

correct it will also offload rasterization to the RT cores. So the game would look better, would have better CPU usage and higher GPU usage.  So it will be a win/win on all categories.  So in theory, no more CPU bottleneck with DX12.

Does that imply hyperthreading either or just better single core usage?

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It's the reduction of draw call using DX12. in DX11, you are limited in terms of multithreading. Only 1 thread can talk to the GPU at any given times. So instead of trying to schedule multiple threads, most draw calls are done from a mainthread. Since MSFS is drawing distance  like never seen before in any games (650 miles), the # of draw calls exceed the capability of any high end modern GPU. So any use with a RTX 2080 or higher will be facing mainthread bottleneck.  The bottleneck is even more significant as you increase resolution.  This is why, per example, when I play in Ultrawide. My GPU usage is less than 50%  as my CPU can't keep up (Threadripper 1950x). Only 1 threads is used for the draw calls. 

In DX12, not only is there a reduction of draw calls but you can have more than 1 thread sending instruction to the GPU, so you are no longer limited by 1 core. The issue is that it's a low level API and requires a lot more coding from a development perspective.  It's not easy to implement but the gain can be significant. There is many games today that take advantage of DX12 that show the difference : TheDivision2 and Borderland 3 are 2 excellent example. I get about 20-30% more frames in both games using DX12.  My CPU gets a lot more threads usage and high GPU usage. So basically, my TR 1950x is no longer a bottleneck because the game can scale horizontally by using more threads (which I have a word not allowed tons of) instead of just relying on IPC and ghz. 

and this is without DLSS. Now add DLSS to the mix in a game like Control and you have an amazing games with ray tracing that runs at high frame rate. P3D is using DX12 and you can see more threads usage but because of legacy code, the maintrhead is still a bottleneck. I am hoping that Asobo doesn't follow the same route and is capable of spreading the workload around for multi-core modern CPU and get more performance out of our hardware.

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Claude Desrosiers

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Thanks for your explanation. I wasn't aware of the fact that so much depends on DirectX. Maybe Asobo will implement it in the next two years, I wish they would prioitize that. Helicopters and ATC seem less relevant, not everyone is using that. However, everyone would gain benefit of better performace. Wished they had coded the MSFS on release based on DX12.

As far as I remember, someone did a DX10 fix for the FSX. That was something different, right?

Edited by 737_800

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2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

correct it will also offload rasterization to the RT cores. So the game would look better, would have better CPU usage and higher GPU usage.  So it will be a win/win on all categories.  So in theory, no more CPU bottleneck with DX12.

No kind of rasterization is ever offloaded onto RT cores. They exist purely to accelerate ray intersection tests - which is useless if you aren't doing any ray tracing.

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7 minutes ago, L3m0n said:

No kind of rasterization is ever offloaded onto RT cores. They exist purely to accelerate ray intersection tests - which is useless if you aren't doing any ray tracing.

What I mean is instead of rendering shadow using rasterization, it's done using ray tracing. 


Claude Desrosiers

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2 hours ago, fogboundturtle said:

What I mean is instead of rendering shadow using rasterization, it's done using ray tracing. 

Provided they decide to use ray tracing for shadows, which is hardly a given. Using it for reflections would likely make more sense for a flight sim as would GI.

But besides that there is mention in the SDK of using ray tracing on the GPU to improve the deep stall simulation.

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