It can't be just me, can it?

I'm not new to flightsim, in the past, the aircraft (including large ones) all had arrows on the displays that you could use to navigate.  But with the three included in MSFS, i can't find a way to turn any such things on.  I've done it in one of the Cessna jets, (haven't tried in the other.)  Is there a way to do this in the bigger aircraft?

Just me who wonders about this?

On 9/7/2020 at 3:42 PM, andyjohnston.net said:

in the past, the aircraft (including large ones) all had arrows on the displays that you could use to navigate.

Hi Andy,

Not sure which arrows you mean.  `The airliners are unfinished and buggy.  Try letting FS create a flight plan and see if your aircraft will follow it.  Documentation is sorely lacking, although I believe there  are some good third party videos on YouTube.  Maybe someone else can recommend some. 

The only reason I can fly the 747-8 and 787-10 at all is that I have a lot of experience flying the PMDG and Quality Wings versions respectively in FSX.  But still, many features that one might expect are missing and I never quite know what will happen next.

In the older versions you could tune in a VOR and the indicators or the display would point in that direction, and give DME if so equipped.

 

I tried doing a flight plan in the 787 today, and it started well, then took me off into the middle of nowhere and I had to switch to heading more and go manually.  Then I got a CTD so nothing else mattered. 🙄

 

 

I think arrows display you spoke of in your first post would be an HSI.  You would tune a VOR and could dial in a course and fly “the arrow”.  You can’t do that in a 787.  You “fly the magenta line”. To be more clear, you have to do at least a minimum bit of programming of the FMC to navigate.  
 

In the old days (737-200, 727) one could prepare the navigation for the flight by:

1) tune the VOR

2) set the VOR course

3) set the initial heading, most likely runway.

4) set initial altitude 

 

that took about 15 seconds, 25 if you were slow. 
 

Today, the FO (copilot) gets to the plane an hour early and starts typing for about 20 minutes if they are good.   The company I fly for has deemed that initial setup the FO's job, I sit and watch in amazement and about the old days.   

40 minutes ago, scottsware said:

I think arrows display you spoke of in your first post would be an HSI.  You would tune a VOR and could dial in a course and fly “the arrow”.  You can’t do that in a 787.  You “fly the magenta line”. To be more clear, you have to do at least a minimum bit of programming of the FMC to navigate.  

Isn't it possible to set a VOR,  or a VOR with a radial and distance as a waypoint, for example JFK224/15?  I think this can  be done in the QW 787, know it can be done in  PMDG aircraft.  That won't work in the FS2020 stock 787.  But it is possible to display the VOR if it is close enough, and steer toward it using heading select.

1 hour ago, Mike777 said:

Isn't it possible to set a VOR,  or a VOR with a radial and distance as a waypoint, for example JFK224/15?  I think this can  be done in the QW 787, know it can be done in  PMDG aircraft.  That won't work in the FS2020 stock 787.  But it is possible to display the VOR if it is close enough, and steer toward it using heading select.

Ok, can it be done in the 747-8?  Or in the A320?

Edited September 16, 20205 yr by andyjohnston.net

3 hours ago, scottsware said:

I think arrows display you spoke of in your first post would be an HSI.  You would tune a VOR and could dial in a course and fly “the arrow”.  You can’t do that in a 787.  You “fly the magenta line”. To be more clear, you have to do at least a minimum bit of programming of the FMC to navigate.  
 

In the old days (737-200, 727) one could prepare the navigation for the flight by:

1) tune the VOR

2) set the VOR course

3) set the initial heading, most likely runway.

4) set initial altitude 

 

that took about 15 seconds, 25 if you were slow. 
 

 

I miss the analog airliners. I hope we get a 727, 737-200 one of these days.

3 hours ago, andyjohnston.net said:

Ok, can it be done in the 747-8?  Or in the A320?

You can do it in the PMDG 747-8 for FSX, which is generally considered a very accurate simulation.  I doubt you can in the FS2020 ASOBO version, which is lacking many functions in the FMC.  The  waypoint entry syntax for a waypoint 20 NM from JFK on the 225 radial is JFK225/20 . 

6 hours ago, scottsware said:

Today, the FO (copilot) gets to the plane an hour early and starts typing for about 20 minutes if they are good.   The company I fly for has deemed that initial setup the FO's job, I sit and watch in amazement and about the old days.   

I am amazed that pilots still have to manually enter FMC data at the start of each flight. Surely that data is produced on paper and given to the crew before they go to the aircraft so surely the FPL, fuel and weight/CoG data could be put onto a flash drive and entered electronically? It seems crazy that highly skilled pilots have to become data entry wallahs for 30 mins prior to each flight. It could even be downloaded over the internet or wifi with the right security. 

The amount of data we “hand jam” is way less now then it was.  The main route, less SID's and STARS is uploaded as are the winds.  The first few years of the 320 737-300/500 we had to even load that.  Some of the things we load manually are preliminary data that is later pushed to us when finalized, at that point, we don’t type the data but rather accept or reject it.  That is much safer as it reduces entry errors.  

It sure seems like there wouldn’t be all that much do to setup a flight but a quick search of Cold and Dark videos give a good overview of how much time it takes. Another factor for a plane like the 787 is currency.   A 737/320 domestic pilot flys many legs and can whip through the setup.   It’s not usual for a 787 to fly only 6 legs or less a month.  Often the FO that is in the flying seat has been a “bunky”/relief pilot and hasn’t sat in the seat for weeks or even months.  Often they have a cheat sheet to remind them what needs loading and in what order. That really slows them down. 

As far as I can tell, it isn't on the 320. Turning the switches to VOR on the glareshield and loading a frequency in either Nav only brings up a  rounded off version of the frequency (115.15 becomes 115.2) on the ND display. No arrows or DME readings are displayed.

Well, I'm shocked and disappointed you aren't able to navigate using these aircraft.  I guess I'll be sticking with the shorter range ones that allow you to do that.  

Not sure if this is an acceptable alternative, but a flight plan can be entered into Little Navmap and you can “fly the magenta line” (can’t remember if it’s actually magenta in the program), but you’ll need to dial the autopilot heading manually as you pass each waypoint:

                https://albar965.github.io/littlenavmap.html

If you’d rather avoid using the monitor real estate (and you have a tablet or smart phone), you can also purchase xMapsy, which supports numerous flight management systems:

                https://xmapsy.com/