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AlaskanFlyboy

Randy J's suggestion - Real Pilots for Real Reviews.

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Randy:"This is why I believe Avsim should create two types of reviews and reviewers. We have many talented real world pilots for most every aircraft in FS who are a part of Avsim forum community, why not use them for indepth reviews?...."Actually, a great suggestion in practice and in the same breath, I would go even further to suggest that companies such as Precision Manuals ONLY use real world pilots as beta testers for future aircraft that way we are all assured of getting the most realistic flight models. But in such an instance I would hazard a guess that would preclude you from being a tester no?I do recall many non-pilot beta testers from many developers, such as yourself, who are ademant regarding the realistic merits of various aircraft when such testers, such as yourself, have actually 0 (zero) time in the respective aircraft. In practice however, such as thing is not practical. What about a review of a Comet or Constellation, how about DC8 or maybe a SR-71 Blackbird? I doubt that there is anyone on this forum qualified to comment on their respective realisms or lack thereof so in your scenarios there would be no one to review OR test them since the qualification to do so would require real world experience. May I draw your attention to the fact that one need not have met God to be a preacher, been to Mars to be an astronomer, been to every country on earth to be a geography teacher, or need to hear the symphony to be a great composer. I hope that I am not overstepping my bounds as an Avsim reviewer since I do not speak for them in this commentary, BUT, since you quoted MY review for your example, please at least allow me the courtesy of retort.

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Seeing as you put a little bit of effort into this, why not tell us what in the world you are talking about.

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Simple: He's talking about Randy J's suggestion as stated above.

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I agree with Randy. Horses for Courses. But unless Randy's a qualified IT specialist why is he allowed to post in a forum online? Unless he's a qualified journalist why is he allowed to have an opinion and write it down?And unless he's an Airbus pilot why is HE allowed to express an opinion about the Airbus addon in question?Slippery slope you're on there Randy. By all means state your case, but to then make a case denying others the opportunity to do the same because they don't possess some aribtrary qualification is simply hypocritical, when you don't possess the qualification or the authority either!OK, so the review is challenged. Isn't that what reviews are? Opinions of the author.? The ONLY problem I see with this particular review, as with most others, is the apparent official acknowledgement of the opinion by Avsim by recognising Brian as an Avsim Staff Reviewer. I think its a bit difficult to argue that the opinions expressed represent just those of the author when he's got an `official` badge hung round his neck. The implication is that his review is endorsed by Avsim. Is it?Allcott

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I agree with Randy. His points remind of a particular individual on the PMDG forum who would consistently provide opinions and technical advice on 737 ops and handling characteristics.....without even holding a pilot's certificate! :-roll

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I wrote a post a couple of weeks ago on the fact that so many people don't use or are too lazy to use the quote function when they post a response to something someone else said on this forum , and I also provided a couple of examples of the resulting confusion that could happen when you are only reading one side of a conversation. Of course, many of the forum "experts" had to point out why I was wrong in posting that, and going on to tell me that my posts wasn't correct, and I should use threaded view and on and on, just to avoid what would be sensible for most of us to read. The post at the top of this thread is a perfect example of what I was talking about.........

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>Randy:>>"This is why I believe Avsim should create two types of>reviews and reviewers. We have many talented real world pilots>for most every aircraft in FS who are a part of Avsim forum>community, why not use them for indepth reviews?....">>Actually, a great suggestion in practice and in the same>breath, I would go even further to suggest that companies such[... snip]>May I draw your attention to the fact that one need not have>met God to be a preacher, been to Mars to be an astronomer,>been to every country on earth to be a geography teacher, or>need to hear the symphony to be a great composer. >[...] snipI'll repeat myself here. I am for one very happy that AVSIM reviews are written by gamers, users, hobbysts, you call it.. and not real life pilots.Here are my personal reasons for it.- first is FS9 has the same in common with reality as cow with car - both things move ;)- FS9 is very fine piece of gaming sofware, when it is not treated as pilot training tool or a booster for armchair pilots :) AVSIM reviewers seems to treat it like it should be treated - a game which has to be fun (even if they don't admit it). Real life pilot will get bored with it in few seconds, so review would be boring.- reviews here give me enough of info to agree is disagree with reviewer and buy or not. I am not obligated to share reviewer opinion, but if they state the facts correctly (even if they make it bit better than in reality for some reasons) it's still very helpfull and informative.- I have few rules I use on internet since 1995. First is "no person on internet is a woman until proven" (and there is only one way to prove), second rule is "no person on internet is real airline pilot until proven" (and no real life pilot will even want to prove anything on internet forum) ;).- Last thing, I seriously doubt working real life airliner pilot would have time and will to even read our forum, not to mention reviewing something.. Of course there are always retired people who by my small experience are great in explaining things and in general talking about aviation, so maybe AVSIM might find someone among them.- lots of pilots aren't even allowed to brag about airlinie they work for, not to mention aircrafts they fly.So imo, AVSIM reviews are fine as they are and thanks for all reviewers for they good job. Personally I could care less about how Airbus fly in real life as I'll never pilot one and FS will never even come close.P.S. Just please stop using this "cartoony' addon for screenshots, thank you :)

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<- first is FS9 has the same in common with reality as cow with car - <- FS9 is very fine piece of gaming sofware, when it is not treated as pilot training tool or a booster for armchair pilots AVSIM reviewers seems to treat it like it should be treated - a game which has to be fun (even if they don't admit it). Real life pilot will get bored with it in few seconds, so review would be boring.<- reviews here give me enough of info to agree is disagree with reviewer and buy or not. I am not obligated to share reviewer opinion, but if they state the facts correctly (even if they make it bit better than in reality for some reasons) it's still very helpfull and informative.<- I have few rules I use on internet since 1995. First is "no person on internet is a woman until proven" (and there is only one way to prove), second rule is "no person on internet is real airline pilot until proven" (and no real life pilot will even want to prove anything on internet forum) .<- Last thing, I seriously doubt working real life airliner pilot would have time and will to even read our forum, not to mention reviewing something.. Of course there are always retired people who by my small experience are great in explaining things and in general talking about aviation, so maybe AVSIM might find someone among them.<- lots of pilots aren't even allowed to brag about airlinie they work for, not to mention aircrafts they fly.

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Well, I am over 40 and a now medically retired private pilot. And so are a number of other AVSIM staff (over 40 that is). So, does that mean you don't trust us? Aw shucks.

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Mike,I admire your restraint. :)My two pence worth... Were we a "pay for" access site, we could do just about anything, including hiring "professional" reviewers and former or current pilots.Were we a "pay for" access site, I would have a lot more tolerance for the type of BS that we are subjected to. In fact, if we were a pay for site, we would have tons of sympathy for those who hold us to a higher standard.We are a FREEWARE site run by, contributed to, and supported by volunteers. Expectations are like elbows. Everyone has at least one. To hold us to a standard that even the pay for sites in today's flight sim community are not required to achieve is, frankly, BS.

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That about covers everything I was thinking............pretty well! :D L.Adamson

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It's hard to tell who's replying to who in this forum ..maybe when I get used to how it works..... L.Adamson: I know you are a pilot..your response confused me..Oh well. My comment was made "Tongue in Cheek"..just to "Tweak" that poster. SPOFF

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For those who might ask? PPL: Private Pilot License. SEL: Single Engine Land. MEL: Multi Engine Land. SES: Single Engine Sea. MES: Multi Engine Sea.That's the initial list. It goes well beyond that for advanced stuff. I post this because I don't want Non Pilots to think Pilots are "Elite". What are you kidding?? SPOFF

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>------------------------------------------> I agree: Anyone over 40 is NOT to be trusted..Especially>PILOTS:>>SPOFF: PPL; SELActually I tried to say exact opposite in-between lines of my post :) English is not my mothertongue unfortunately.But you are right ;) (though I know pilots over 40 and trust them, kinda hehe)

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So that's what PPL-ASEL meant on the letter that came my certiicate of course completion and my temp license. :-hah Sorry, Couldn't resist the crack.In all seriousness though. I had an idea mulling through my head that if I did my own site, I'd do kinda like Amazon.com does for it's products, but instead of books, movies, etc, it would be for the file library. Have a link that says reviews that appears in the title bar of the file's listing. Have the official review at the top and the user submitted reviews at the bottom on this page. I don't know how difficult this would be to accomplish though.I know there are some airline pilots that paruse through forums and use flight simulator because frankly, some are just obsessed with flying and aviation. Even when I get into commercial aviation, I doubt my use of Flight Simulator will die out. There are places to fly, things to see, things to do that I just frankly could never do in reality. That's the fantasy of this program.I doubt I'll ever have the time money to do a real Round the World flight in my life, no matter how much I think it would be fun. I can do it in Flight sim because time isn't a consideration because I'm sure I could chunk out 2 or 3 hours out of a day off to make a leg, whereas in reality, I'd have to chunk out days or weeks and then pay for gas, landing fees, and various other fees.There is a limit to realism for FS I think though, If you make it too real, the fun comes out of it. Aviation in reality requires so much consideration. In the US, you've got TFRs and may have an F-16 on your tail and those missles under it's wings aren't just props to make it look more menacing. Fortunately, I've never had to see that and I pray that I never do, since that can be a life wrecker.Things break. I've had to cancel a couple flights because one of the primer lines had gotten busted. If I do use a program to simulate random failures from wear and tear and my plane breaks down hours away from home, I can quit the sim rather than find myself looking for a way to repair it and get home.So for me, the sim is just an outlet to do the things I can do in reality, and to just enjoy the fantasy of flying aircaft I can't fly yet and/or to places I'd love to fly to some day.I'm sure there are a lot more airline pilots in these forums than some of you believe. And I'm sure they all have their reasons for using flight simulator. Just because you fly for a living doesn't necessarily mean you'll bore of it. Some do have the bug and enjoy flight simulator on their time off.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004, MidContinent VA 737 Fleet"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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