Bird Dog Released

[Todd2 2,112]

20 hours ago, Steve Dra said:

Seeing a video review on the new BBS offering....the reviewer was not impressed.

Let's compare $29 cockpits...shall we? (I got the BBS panel off the youtube review but it was as detailed as you probably want to see this panel....but take that into consideration if you think it impacts the quality of BBS modeling work...)

The BirdDog panel:

 

A panel from another $29 GA aircraft available in MSFS:

 

Hmm....I'm undecided on which one would get my $29.

 

 

They both got my 29bucks but the Ovation wins hands down.

[Steve Dra 7,588]

1 hour ago, Todd2 said:

They both got my 29bucks but the Ovation wins hands down.

I'd be interested to follow the progress of updates for the Birddog....giving the developer a fair chance to make it right in hopes that it may eventually become an addon worthy of the price he's asking.

Please keep us up to date on fixes...Did you find the 1st hotfix to repair some of the more glaring issues satisfactory?  Are there other "must fix" items you expect to see from an engaged developer?

[WidowsSon 135]

For reference, when I did the review, I was using ver 1.1, so I too am waiting for an update, but the update released does not fix any of the issues I experienced in the review.

Also, I don't have any bones to pick, I really wanted to love this addon. I want nothing more than a float plane and the bush plane was a bonus.

This list is by no means comprehensive as others have found different issues. These are just the ones I found before giving up on doing a serious and methodical review. I ran out of patience after 5 hours of NO flight time (just instrument panel and model)  and then less than a few hours flight time.

Comments on the flight model were excluded because things like coordinated turns and slips and skids although not feeling correct, I'm unsure if this is a model problem or sim problem as I've noticed similar things in other aircraft.

I also didn't offer any opinions on the aircraft in the review (except positive ones) save the single time I mentioned I didn't think it was ready for release and therefore not worth $40.

The review was literally video of my experience with the plane while finding the below.

IMO, to make this a $40 addon the developer needs to address the following:

To make the model usable:

• Inoperable switches
• No Instrument panel views using MS default pov/hat switch
• Default Zoom View is unusable (especially without instrument view)
• Aircraft is sometimes invisible on cold/dark start
• No idea what happens on landing on water with overstress?
• Fuel selector has no off position (all instead) and doesn't go to that position once turned from it
• CDI goes haywire (to/from)
• magnetos broken (scroll past both and it actually starts as if the start option is invisibly there)
• Can't actually start the aircraft using proper procedures. (you have to know tricks that are undocumented)
• Model can be frozen on load
• No gear up switch in cockpit with floats
• Trim by default is pitch way down which makes takeoffs really difficult, and no indication of neutral trim

To make the model worth $40.00

• Interior textures need improvement
• Too many visual glitches to mention (seems, prop etc)
• Gauges look horrible (reflections or texture? look melted)
• Interior polygon count is FSX at best (I'm fine with exterior)
• Volt/Amp gauge says its modeled but isnt'. Technically it moves when you flip from volt/amp, but no movement when starting aircraft for instance or when fuel boost pump is activated etc... it isn't actually modeled.
• many sounds not modeled (no switch sounds for instance)
• No gear up indicator in cockpit with floats (switch could be used as indicator although not very safe, acceptable because it sim I guess, I'm expected to flip to external view to see if my gear is up?)

[WidowsSon 135]

Forgot on of my biggest issues with this.

Upside down switches.

Do you know how confusing this is (even after recognizing it) to someone with 30+ years of muscle memory in aircraft. I had to triple think of everything I was doing (evident in video when I flip one down, and then out of habit see it "OFF" and flip it back up which is now OFF).

[Steve Dra 7,588]

24 minutes ago, WidowsSon said:

Forgot on of my biggest issues with this.

Upside down switches.

Do you know how confusing this is (even after recognizing it) to someone with 30+ years of muscle memory in aircraft. I had to triple think of everything I was doing (evident in video when I flip one down, and then out of habit see it "OFF" and flip it back up which is now OFF).

Thanks for posting here and clarifying (not that you needed to....your assessment was spot on, and only folks with agendas wanted to imply bias...if not outright accuse you of it.)

Anyway....are those switches in fact upside down in the real aircraft?  I tried to find pics of the cockpit, but there are so many variations of the cockpit...of the pics I found that are close to the config he modeled.... are inconclusive.   If they are in fact upside down in the BBS bird but not real life.....that has got to be one of the most blatant errors that the dev did not bother to either QA or fix.

Wondering if he reached out to you since the review...I know his stoolie did! 🙂

 

 

[WidowsSon 135]

8 minutes ago, Steve Dra said:

Thanks for posting here and clarifying (not that you needed to....your assessment was spot on, and only folks with agendas wanted to imply bias...if not outright accuse you of it.)

Anyway....are those switches in fact upside down in the real aircraft?  I tried to find pics of the cockpit, but there are so many variations of the cockpit...of the pics I found that are close to the config he modeled.... are inconclusive.   If they are in fact upside down in the BBS bird but not real life.....that has got to be one of the most blatant errors that the dev did not bother to either QA or fix.

Wondering if he reached out to you since the review...I know his stoolie did! 🙂

 

 

Thanks steve,

Appreciate the kind words. A part of me feels bad for the amount of attention this received. That being said, less so after seeing the reaction from him and friend/employee (unsure)

I feel the developer needs to take responsibility for what I feel is unfinished instead of somehow implying that I'm somehow at fault and like you said outright accuse me of something.

I have seen personally hundreds of aircraft in around this era including Cessna 170's (basically this aircraft) and have never seen this before in my 30+ years. On top of that, I was careful to note that I do not know everything and that it's very possible there is a good reason for this strange installation based on some niche or unique use case in some country in some era........ Because of that possibility, I dove in to do some research on this very thing and could not find a single case (looked at around 30 panels from that era of L-19's and 170's) of these switches being installed in this manner.

I would hazard to guess while still being cautious that this was an error.

What bothers me most of this error is how it could get past any amount of eyeballs or testing with anyone that has even the slightest bit of experience with aircraft or switches for that matter.

It is so non-intuitive that after having figured it out by reading the ON labels on the bottom, I still had incredible difficulty in operating the switches because it was like trying to re-wire my brain. I can't count how many times I slowly got all the switches set up for start, and then as I was doing a final check before hitting the start button, moused over a switch and clicked it UP purely out of habit.

As small of an issue this may seem to some (friend/employee seems to think this is a small mistake), I feel that this issue speaks volumes of the type of issues and mistakes we should expect of this aircraft.

What possibly could the flight dynamics of this aircraft be, if you can't get the switches right?

I have not been contacted by the developer except indirectly via forums while responding to someone else implying that the release day had a certain bad smell because of my review. As this topic seems to be very touchy, I will keep my comments in regards to the developer to myself. The only real interaction I had with him was pre-install via messaging and I was impressed by the speed of his responses to my questions that were adequately answered.

[WidowsSon 135]

I apologize If I'm posting too much in this thread. For some context, after a new video I would usually post them on many forums like this for others to see. I didn't with this one because I didn't want to seem like I was chasing the dev around letting people know. I tried to remain out of the comments unless accused or specifically referenced.

Since I've jumped in now, and I apologize for the long posts but I think its important to ad context to my original review I posted the following statement in the video review's description. I realize that few people may have seen that so here it is without edits.:

 

Was looking forward to a new float plane in msfs 2020 and when the Cessna L-19 Bird Dog by BlackBox Simulations came along I was excited to find out that there were 3 variants included. Standard Cessna L-19 along with the Bush Plane Version of the L-19 with larger tires and an Amphibious or Float Plane Cessna L-19 with pontoons. How exciting.

Clearly, a generous portion of this review is in jest, but not unfairly in my opinion. The Cessna L-19 by BlackBox simulations was not ready to be released, is clearly a product that still needs a lot of development, and my out of character reaction to this is clearly captured within this video review of the Cessna after having frustratingly tried to test and review this product in a serious and methodical nature. It became humorous at one point with the number of issues and nature of them. This is that result.

Consumers of a premium product (priced at $40 cad) should not have to put up with this. I feel a certain amount of empathy for a small developer like BlackBox simulations over this and did consider not posting this and sleeping on it a bit first. I decided however that doing this (which would lead to me eventually tempering my opinions) would not be fair to my subscribers who I've tried to be honest within my reviews and opinions. This is how I felt when using this product.

I don't want to assume that the developer rushed this to release to take advantage of being the first to market to a community hungry for options, but I would guess this had an influence on their decision. It was the wrong decision, and ultimately although they may capture a small portion of suckers like myself who are quick to purchase, I don't regret my decision if it helps inform other people to help make theirs. I hope for their sake the quick sales make up for the long term damage to the lifetime simmers who may not ever look at their products again. It is a lot harder to repair these types of relationships than it is to destroy them.

I hope this can help some of my viewers to make an informed decision about this product. I buy em so you don't have to.

Lastly, I will not update this review every time a single item is fixed. If you have a lot of interest in this product you will be able to easily follow this on a relevant forum.

If however, major changes to this model and its problems are corrected by the developer which I will follow as I now own this product, I will post a follow-up review that I would be more than happy to be glowing about.

For reference, Version 1.10 was reviewed on Sept. 29, 2020

[Steve Dra 7,588]

On 9/30/2020 at 3:35 PM, WidowsSon said:

Thanks steve,

 

Believe me you do not have to tip toe around comments regarding this dev.  He is infamous in many ways, and this latest disaster of a release does nothing but prove all the trepidation we've had with his previous releases are just.

I sincerely hope your review has swayed potential marks away from this clearly predatory behavior (meaning he knew his reputation is not known to the thousands of new simmers that just flooded the market, and it appears he purposely targeted that group with a $29US dash and run....only to fix some of the issues that may make this a real $29 addon one day....but he needs to learn some serious modeling skills for the cabin before this trash heap even comes close to that mark...if ever....I mean...like you mentioned...its the most basic aircraft you can imagine, no GPS to code, complex systems to model...a stick and rudder plane if there ever was one!)  Not sure if it was ever a $29 addon.

Edited October 5, 2020 by n4gix
For the love of all, please do not quote an entire wall of text when replying!

[WidowsSon 135]

First video I've had with 2 thumbs down where I know exactly who the two thumbs are.

[Steve Dra 7,588]

On 9/30/2020 at 6:06 PM, WidowsSon said:

First video I've had with 2 thumbs down where I know exactly who the two thumbs are.

I wouldn't worry about it. 😉

It seems that Graham has had his 15 mins of fame in MSFS....and now is falling back into the same pattern as the rest of his "company" (company of 2 by the way).   Been over 3 days since there was any activity in the FS forum post, seems all the folks who bought it are resigning themselves to "live and learn, never buying from this guy again".

Even more sad, you'd think a dev with their own support forum would be at least attentive to that place, since that's where his customers "should" go for support...dontcha'; think?

Nope....no new category set up for the MSFS version, no talk of it in the existing forums....with the exception of some poor simmer who bought it and asked if they could make a section for the new plane.  Not a peep from forum mods, or the owner himself....If I were to guess....I'd say he's busy porting one of his other "creations"... ready to scam more unsuspecting simmers.  Sounds harsh I know...but someone please offer an opposing view.  This developer needs to be officially "Black" listed (See what I did there? 🙂 ) 

If I had to guess on his next MSFS release... the Bulldog would next.

 

[HighBypass 2,339]

...Bulldog...or Islander... 

Yeah the official forums are suspiciously void of... any officials...

[WidowsSon 135]

My opinion hasn't changed much, but there have been improvements.

 

[Todd2 2,112]

They are on version 1.3 now and it even improves the cockpits.

[WidowsSon 135]

I do not believe there were any changes to the cockpit model.

If you read their changelog there are few differences:

Fixed some instrument lighting issues
Fixed Incorrect Fuel Tank Labelling Aux / Main
Added Japanese Air Defence Version
Added Pilot, Pax and Load, visibility based on stationload weight
Fixed Elevator Trim Labelling (Was Reversed)
new * Cold And Dark Staring is now fixed when positioned on the Ramp (Users reported this not working)
new * ATC Radios now fixed when starting at the ramp (Now require only Batt on)

[Todd2 2,112]

Version 1.3 has obvious changes to the cockpit.