Bird Dog Released

[HighBypass 2,339]

Hopefully the shoddy Bird Dog output means that BBS are working on V1.0 of the Airbuses.. ...for FSX..

Incidentally, IMO, after reading that quick review, the BBS widebodys seem to be more functional and pleasing to the eye than the (far less complex!) Bird Dog.. and again that's in FSX. A quick & dirty cash-grab port-over for the new sim it seems.

[spacedyemeerkat 421]

9 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

A quick & dirty cash-grab port-over for the new sim it seems.

Yup. Feels like there's an awful lot of word not allowed-shovelling going in.

[cavaricooper 2,615]

Something like this underscores the fact that with this huge market (in comparison to the traditional FS market) there will be LOTS of shoddy developers shoveling out products as fast as possible to try and capture a small percent of said huge market.  That's the reason Telemarketers still exist- even at 1% they make money.  

This is where AvSim can really make a difference for those neophytes, who do not know any better.  Thanks for the information- I have fond memories of an L-16, but will wait until ATSimulations releases one for MSFS (fingers x'ed!).

C

[Steve Dra 7,588]

2 hours ago, styckx said:

Same.. I've over that myself as I get older.. I'm only 43, but it's exhausting to think about going down the road of keeping track of numerous purchases across 30 different websites. 

I'm a bit older....but same sentiment.  I look at this spreadsheet now when I want to recall what a pain it was to manage all the addons that were "required" for me to enjoy past sims.

While I've not cured myself of "gottahave-itus" when it comes to addons...this sim needs so much less of it that unless its a vendor that I fully trust and the Marketplace in the sim just refuses to post the addon I want from them in a reasonable amount of time, I may go thru their commerce site to get it. (I did with Flightbeam's KDEN...and I wish the marketplace would detect it's installed to show "owned" with the other addos bought thru the store...but I can understand why its not.

Anyway....if you were to scroll thru this list above, you'd see one Blackbox purchase...and I'm still waiting for promised updates.🙄  Sadly, I've moved on from that sim....I guess I'll have to rush out and buy it again when they "rebuild it completely from scratch" for MSFS as I'm sure the next major announcement in the Airbus "Prolouge" series is going to be "We're the first "major" developer to get an airliner to the MSFS Market". 

I'd imagine that they've completely shifted their workforce (Antony) off coding specifically for FSX/P3D, and working feverishly, trying to figure out how to get a "Prolouge" series Airbus on to the market before anyone else.

And the fun part will be when many switches and other critical functions don't work in an extremely complex aircraft (I dunno...like an Airbus?)....like they don't work on their initial release of an extremely simple one....here is how your developer will answer....publicly, on MSFS's forum....

"Perhaps these items don't work yet"....Really?  Hours after release and you're telling us how easily it can be fixed with a patch?  Uhhh....I'm funny this way...but things that can be fixed quite easily, and by all means should have been caught BEFORE releasing a $29 addon....should have been fixed BEFORE you tried to get money for it...but then....I'm funny that way in my expectations of a commercial dev.

"Does it look right?"   LOL....never have I seen a dev actually ask such a subjective question and really expect an answer...and basing a $29 addon for just that...as you've seen...can open you up for some rather rash feedback around here. 🙂

"Do MANY of the switches actually work"....Uhh....should you have to make a statement like that on a $29 addon?  I wouldn't think so.  Employing reverse logic to try to explain why "some" switches don't work is not a good way to rationalize things.

And finally...my personal favorite: "Is it a reasonably good rendition of the Cessna Bird Dog considering the SDK is mostly unworkable?"

2 things with that doozie...

1. A commercial developer, throwing MS under the bus....on THEIR forum, in public?  Bad form.
2. The overtly-stated, pre-notion that anything wrong with the addon will be squarely put on "The SDK is mostly unworkable", and thus free the dev of any wrong-doing and timely resolution to fix things because he can simply blame them on MS' and the SDK?   I guess the SDK for FSX and P3d are one of the reasons the Airbus "Prolouge" series is not at 1.0 year after how many years of development....when 2 other companies have managed to put out renditions of the same airframe?  Hmmmm....Naw...can't blame MS or the SDK for that, now can you BBS?

Anyone wanting to risk doing business with this dev....please do.  I won't....until I get the 1.0 version of my Airbus.  Then I'll re-evaluate if they deserve my business.  Oh wait...is there a statue of limitations on how long I should wait for a dev to deliver a promised update to a product?  considering:

1. They are still in business (as BBS anyway)

2. They show actual signs of progress on any package they are selling

3. They continue to post on their forums that the update is coming

Yep....Those items should lead me to reasonably believe that 1.0 of the Airbus "Prolouge" is coming. 🙂

[raymar 969]

There are two posts here for the BB bird dog. I made a quick assessment in the first and earlier post. I was a checkpilot for the Civil Air Patrol specializing in the military surplus L-19s that were free. It is a great high performance, no frills, flying machine.

Very noisy, climbs like an elevator, very easy for Cessna and Cherokee pilots to experience a prop strike when transitioning to a severe tail dragger.

The CAP was getting replacement props from the Arizona desert for no cost, but, had to pay shipping. No radios were installed in most, and if one had a radio it was military frequencies only. 

A day of S and R flying in the Birddog was very exhausting and I would opt for a new C172 anyday.  Same today with this one,

My comment in the other thread was can this be worth the same price of the Mooney at the Marketplace? I think not.

[Steve Dra 7,588]

21 minutes ago, raymar said:

My comment in the other thread was can this be worth the same price of the Mooney at the Marketplace? I think not

I too am struggling hard to rationalize that.  The $10 kitfox from a dev unknown to me seems to have more detail and polish...at 1/3rd the price.

Seems one/all of these things have set this price:

• Dev pride in their work that he believes its actually worth this price
• Dev expectance that folks will buy it in a rush to grab any plane new to the sim, at a price similar (except the Kitfox) to other payware aircraft addons.
• Dev did a market research study and deemed its just as good as the Mooney
• Dev expects after the initial rush...sales will sharply decline after reviews...so price artificially inflated to offset projected sales figures over time.

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Steve Dra
wrong word

[Waldo Pepper 1,953]

 I loved being in the CAP as a kid.  Always felt that it was much more fun than scouting.

[HighBypass 2,339]

6 hours ago, Steve Dra said:

Anyone wanting to risk doing business with this dev....please do.  I won't....until I get the 1.0 version of my Airbus. 

I guess that might be me, bearing in mind what I've seen with the demo in FSX:SE.  In the interests of debate with a little digression and in no way endorsing what BBS have done with the Bird Dog for the new sim, I will now get shot down in attempting to say why I, ME, ONLY ME thinks I should buy the existing Airbus product based on my playtime with the demo and not being an actual Airbus pilot.

Please note that in no way do I expect us to have a falling out and no longer go for beers in the pub (even if we have never done so in real life!). It hand flies like this layman might expect a big modern airliner to and certainly "different" to the other payware widebody I have (Sky Sim MD-11). Despite talk of a dodgy flare law, intuitively I seem to be landing it fine.

Visually it looks great, especially the VC compared to freeware examples I've been using. It appears to offer some realistic complexity in procedures whilst being cheaper (a330 and 340 with a couple of variants of each included) that the best alternatives currently available.

It has a polished Pre-Flight manager for loading pax, cargo and fuel (plus calculations therein) which AFAIK works smoothly with the sim. It has an FMC which seems to mimic the real thing - I've only been used to FMC's for show and not tried programming one! Now I have 4 different ones to contend with, each with their own levels of realism too so it's about time I learned how to use them as best I can.  (BBS, Sky Sim which has Easy FMC licenced in, and QualityWings 146/RJ which has 2 different FMCs).

I do not know how I'll get on with the BBS FMC with regard to the FSX database which I upgrde every so often via Henri Sor's navaid site...

IF BBS were to try and bring the 'Buses into FS2020 then I suspect that they'd have to start over again, so I realise I'm going to be stuck with V0.87. Their Bird Dog seems to have screwed the pooch in that regard.

[Steve Dra 7,588]

Seeing a video review on the new BBS offering....the reviewer was not impressed.

Let's compare $29 cockpits...shall we? (I got the BBS panel off the youtube review but it was as detailed as you probably want to see this panel....but take that into consideration if you think it impacts the quality of BBS modeling work...)

The BirdDog panel:

 

A panel from another $29 GA aircraft available in MSFS:

 

Hmm....I'm undecided on which one would get my $29.

 

 

[Chock 17,769]

On 9/28/2020 at 7:56 PM, HighBypass said:

I guess that might be me, bearing in mind what I've seen with the demo in FSX:SE.  In the interests of debate with a little digression and in no way endorsing what BBS have done with the Bird Dog for the new sim, I will now get shot down in attempting to say why I, ME, ONLY ME thinks I should buy the existing Airbus product based on my playtime with the demo and not being an actual Airbus pilot.

Don't worry, their shoddy work ethic aside, it's not a crime to like a BBS Airbus. Their 320 variants have been surpassed by Aerosoft for the most part, as has their 330, which in turn are surpassed by the FSL one, but then again, their order of superiority is commensurate with their price too, and so you could argue that the BBS ones are maybe the best value, since they do undeniably have a lot of functionality. I've got most of their Airbuses, which have largely been relegated to hangar queens by those other products, but even so I think their A340 actually is worth having. As you say, there are plus points to them, for example their nosewheel tiller steering system is better than what FSL came up with.

That said, I'm fairly certain BBS are going for an attempt on seeing if they can take longer to finish their Prologue Airbuses than it took the Germans to complete Cologne Cathedral (to save you Googling that, it was started in 1248, and finally completed in 1880, so that'd be well over six centuries). 🤣

Back on topic however, that Bird Dog looks shockingly bad for the money when you consider what the Carenado Mooney and 182 look, and indeed function like. And let's be honest, Carenado have not been undeserving of some past criticism on occasion either (I'm looking at you Cessna 441), so when Carenado of all companies are making you look bad, I think it's time to have a good hard look in the mirror.

And on the subject of mirrors (note to BBS) if that's a round mirror you decide to take a look in, sort of a bit like the one on the Bird Dog, please note that it would take more than a twenty-sided polygon in blender to actually make it look round, and also note that since we can do polished surface textures in MSFS which produce real-time reflections, you could actually make that mirror on your Bird Dog function, you know, like they often do in add-ons which cost less than thirty quid. Hell, they work in the DCS MiG-29, and that's half the price of this BBS Bird Dog.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Chock

[Steve Dra 7,588]

1 hour ago, Chock said:

so when Carenado of all companies are making you look bad, I think it's time to have a good hard look in the mirror.

OMG you had me rolling on the floor! We've all had our fair pokes at Carenado products over time, but when you see the abomination BBS put up for sale....at the same price as the Mooney (which is a fine bird...and I'm liking it more every time I fly it).....you've gotta scratch your head and wonder what Graham was thinking.  Sadly....we can conclude what he was thinking, and its nefarious at best, because no developer has enough ego or pride to honestly think a creation like the BBS Birddog is on par to the Mooney.  

Here is a review by a very good and unbiased reviewer. (and he even waited for the v1.1 patch to come out because he didn't want to unfairly rate the plane until it had its 1st patch...24 hours out of the gate.)

 

[HighBypass 2,339]

Well, I'm a little off topic here but mentioning for closure. I emailed Graham nicely and said that I hoped my purchase would, in some tiny way help towards alleviating the problem in getting the Prologue to V1.0 release status... in the older sims!   (Hopefully he understood the subtle implication of  "get your sh.. in order before trying to go for the new sim). 

[Steve Dra 7,588]

4 hours ago, HighBypass said:

Well, I'm a little off topic here but mentioning for closure. I emailed Graham nicely and said that I hoped my purchase would, in some tiny way help towards alleviating the problem in getting the Prologue to V1.0 release status... in the older sims!   (Hopefully he understood the subtle implication of  "get your sh.. in order before trying to go for the new sim). 

Well....as much as I too want to believe that he will put that money, and all the new money he's currently scalping off unsuspecting new MSFS simmers who think that a $29US addon must have "something" new and exciting to warrant that price...back into the business. Based solely on no communication on the progress of "Prolouge"....how can we know that money is being allocated to getting more resources to even get it to V.90...since it's been stuck at V-Whatever for how long now?

At the very least...he coulda' spent a few hundred bucks for someone to teach him how to create round gauges and buttons in MSFS, and how to knock off the mirror-like reflection he has going on the bezels based on what I saw in the video.🙄

Keep us posted if he replies!

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

Either the polys got broken on porting it over or the original was modeled with low poly - Im all set 

[Johnny Wyatt 152]

20 hours ago, Steve Dra said:

Seeing a video review on the new BBS offering....the reviewer was not impressed.

Let's compare $29 cockpits...shall we? (I got the BBS panel off the youtube review but it was as detailed as you probably want to see this panel....but take that into consideration if you think it impacts the quality of BBS modeling work...)

The BirdDog panel:

 

A panel from another $29 GA aircraft available in MSFS:

 

Hmm....I'm undecided on which one would get my $29.

The Carenado M20 has a nice cockpit indeed, however it's lower resolution than the default Asobo planes if you start zooming too much; with the Asobo planes (apart from a few exceptions such as the non-Garmin parts of the Grand Caravan), all the way up to max zoom the textures are crisp. Not the case on the M20R, especially on the white buttons from the AP and alt AP. For regular usage without zooming much it's not too noticeable, especially on 1440p. Maybe in 4K it's more of a problem.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Ray Proudfoot
Images removed for bandwidth reasons.