If we assume for a minute that FSX performance is permanently crippled by the lack of multi core support, and this is certainly a viewpoint of many on the boards, what does it mean to the fs community? First, there will be an ongoing split between users of FS9 and FSX. You see it today with many of the regular avsim contributors posting in the FS9 forum and others posting in the FSX forum. If this continues it has to be a negative for the community, as shared experience is critical for any group. And then there are fence sitters like me who can't really make FSX perform well enough to be usable and who don't want to use an "old" sim. So the user community is now spit 3 ways between FS9, FSX, and fence sitters.And a split community is not conducive to 3rd party addon support. Which version do developers write their addons for? The market has suddenly become fragmented and could stay a lot smaller until multicore cpu support is here and everyone moves to the same version.So the community itself, made up of developers, simmers, and avsim (and like boards) has become fragmented and thus of less value to its members. So not only has fragmentation led to smaller discrete communities but the absolute number of members may drop as there is not as much value in membership. Food for thought...billg

Until Aces/Microsoft comes up with a thorough patch which fixes the terrible performances, I am sure the developers will stick to FS9. I mean, how can they earn money to pay rent and food for their families if developing for FSX,...which would mean selling a handful copies. ;-)Don

Having now seen FSX in action (or is that inaction :-lol), I have now lifted my self-imposed embargo on purchasing any further FS9 addons that was instigated because the new sim had arrived. It will remain that way for me until either FSX gets patched for addon headroom or the addons themselves inject the headroom where MS hasn't been able to. In the meantime, FS9 still has a lot of potential and I will continue supporting payware and freeware developers on this platform.Gary

I think that FSX is a very fun game and I think that this split community may be exactly what the developers MUST see in order to make the corrections needed. From what I have gathered, AVSIM is one of the most popular forums on the web and Microsoft knows. Im sure that they will release patches that will put everyones minds at ease. As far as a split community goes, its not a bad thing. Wether you are flying FS9 or FSX, there is still a love for flight simming and everyone can fly wherever they want and still talk about it and share fun experiences. What is the difference between me taking off from Eleftherios-Venizelos airport in Athens, Greece on FSX or some FS9 user taking off from the same airport?? Nothing. We can still talk about the sweet stuff that happened with weather or the way we totally miffed a helicopter landing/hover while trying to get a closer view of the Acropolis. The only thing that worries me about FSX is that when it comes to patches, is Microsoft only going to cater to the higher end power users with the pimped out rigs or will they also release patches for those of us with more seasoned computers? I run a single core CPU and a nice AGP GPU and hope that I dont get left behind. Other than that, I love FSX and look forward to sharing my stories with you guys and look forward to hearing your stories about your flights, wether its FSX or FS9. Thanks for hearing my $0.02 worth and I hope you guys have a great weekend.-Tom-

Bill:Well, unfortunately what we may end up with is another FS2000. Whereas, FS2000 was a great graphical leap from FS98 and the beginnings of what we saw through FS9, it was arguably one of the worse FS releases despite the new technologies it brought to bear.In the case of FSX, the community IS decidedly split. There are also many who are in a holding pattern, as it were, waiting to see in what direction FSX heads in regard to performance before making the financial commitment. If something happens to change the current performance issues within FSX I am sure the floodgates would open to a successful 3rd party market as we have enjoyed in FS9. However, if progress is slow in coming, it may prove to be some very lean years for the 3rd party developers.The immediate future points to SLI and multicore computing for raw power. I am at a loss as to why people are being caught by surprise with this shift. Supercomputers have been and still are multi-core behemoths that spread processing over a distributed computing model. This tried and true paradigm for extracting the most computing power in relation to the current state-of-the-art has merely found its way to the desktop. I've heard remarks that FSX is built for the "future" of computing, but I have not heard Aces state what their vision of the future is, therefore there can be no quantification of that mindset. Surely, if I say that I am building a coffee shop in the middle of a barren desert waiting to serve commuters waiting for the train that does not yet exist then I should be assured that sometime within the future someone will build train tracks and a station with running train service at my location that will serve hundreds of commuters thereby establishing myself as a visionary. However, if I build that same coffee shop in the middle of the desert and hope that someone will build a train station there when I have no facts that one will ever exist...I am no longer a visionary, I am a fool and admittedly the line that dilineates the two is thin. We shall see. But I digress. If Aces indeed did bet on the wrong horse, then the community will suffer at least until FS 11 and I pray that lessons have been learned and there will be no more status quo released.The reality is that for now, FSX is not poised to take advantage of anything foreseen over the next 2-4 years, read: multicores. This, is disconcerting. I have a distinct feeling that we will not be able to enjoy the 'uber-customized' world of FS9 within out new sim for many reasons, performace not being the least of those. This directly translates into lost revenue for the 3rd party developers and more in fighting within the community.Fasten your seatbelts, ladies and gentlemen, we in for a bumpy ride.

Love. Thats what it means to me. I am in Love. I love my wife, dogs, kids and FSX. It is a gift from the sim gods. Each of the releases I have bronzed the discs and put in a hermetically sealed glass frame. I will pass these on to someone someday. :-lol Sorry, I am in some kindof mood today. It is Friday, the best darn day of the week.RegardsBob

We come back to the same point time and again. What is MS going to do? The fact is they have aready told us they are going to do something. They haven't said what, and it is too early to pester, but they have already more or less ruled out full dual or multi-core support. So any performance enhancements are most likely going to have to come from one of three sources:1: Vista/DX102: Better support for current hardwareor3: Downgrading FSX through patch or menu option so that it runs adequately.To my way of thinking, 1: and 3: are both non-starters. Vista is going to be a very expensive upgrade, and while we all know this product was supposed to be for Vista, it was MS's choice to release it into an XP market. So they must fix what we have, not merely leave it to our wallets. Besides, ACES themselves admit they don't know where the performance benefits will come from the marriage of Vista and DX10 yet. And you don't sell with one hand then take back with another - that would be against every defining principle of consumer law and would lay MS open to class actions in just about all the major markets in the World. If I sold you a Ferrari, took your money, gave you the car - then two weeks later turned up on your doorstep and swapped it for a Ford but didn't offer you a refund on the lower spec vehicle I'd left you with you'd be pretty p*SS*d, and the law would be on my tail!My money is on 2;, but equally I would bet that there isn't an awful lot of scope before they stumble into territory occupied by 3:And already I see faith is being placed in FS11 to solve these issiues. Sorry but we put our faith in the ACES team to solve these issues for FSX. And our money too. The fact is they let us down. Badly.How they make amends will truly be the mark of the company. And I suspect more than just the sim community is watching to see how MS handles itself in this situation. So far, the new open-ness and dialogue is a refreshing step in the right direction, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. 30fps please ACES, or don't bother with FS11 because the franchise is finished. They get to take my money every version, but they only get to take my money AND my trust once.Allcott

I know what it means for 3rd party developers of commercial addons. Most of 3rd part developers will be out of business soon, unfortunately.Two things:- FSX in its current state does not really have any overhead for 3rd party addons- even if there will be some patch/hardware/good aligment of stars which will allow FSX to run 3rd party addons efficiently, people will expect much higher quality than it was in FS9 case. Quality = big money spent (professional 3d modeler rate in UK is around 250GBP/day for example). Addons made by hobbysts/at home won't cut it anymore. Learning new SDK, how the new game works costs money as well.- transition between FS9 and FSX made a lot of people confused. Confused customer keeps the money in their pocket. I think the confusion period when it comes to FSX may last for a very long time.Bottom line is - only the strongest will survive, or hopefully we will still have a good FS9 market.

FSX looks great on paper. New graphics, new shader model, camera system, multiplayer, Simconnect etc etc. But in reality while there were some moments I enjoyed, I found out I was spending more time tweaking the stupid thing than flying. Sometimes FPS would be fine, then it would drop, then I would quit. I have subsequently uninstalled FSX. This release appears to have fallen flat on its face, and I can only hope ACES provides something to prop it back up again. Obviously, the waiting for the future hardware train excuse doesn't work anymore. People wanted to play FSX yesterday, not buy the product and then wait a year. This is especially ridiculous considering the very limited Multicore and SLI support. How can you say the game is waiting for the hardware when it doesn't even take advantage of current hardware?

What I'd like to see very most, besides an obvious patch which includes all the tweaks and "Adding on lines" that we are used to (for the sake of the newbies) is a LOT more options to turn things on and off. Why is it when I am not running AI or ATC..STILL I take hits near large airports. (and same thing totally clouded in or not, so how can it be the buildings?) Can that be turned ALL the way off? How about turning off any flight records..why am I recording what I don't care to re-live? I have all the vheicles and such turned off, but when starting at Brooklyn USCG..there's a truck that goes running past. Who is he? Why is he there with 0%? A mere yes/no in the config is fine. We all fairly knew we'd need new mesh and textures, sunsets and all those things..and hopefully "new" ones will last many other versions. Please, just give me "off" switches that really do work. :)

The "patch" may be FSXI...

LOL. All this doom and gloom people predict. Let's confront some ideas here...1) Basing your business upon another software company is a little silly. If MS decides to drop the FS series, you lose a job. If FSX spells the end of your company, you didn't plan right.2) Doom and gloom. You folks really are sounding like Chicken Little in all this raving. Mark my words, efficient CPU architecture WILL save the day, even if Vista, DX10 and a performance patch do not... heck, who knows, perhaps the chip designers will find another way to squeeze out a few more MHz in some new technology.3) The FS community is thriving. Every day I log into FS sites and find new updates for FSX. Daily I find new payware programs being released. Are you folks not seeing this? Has FSX blinded you?4) I think group mentality has struck this forum. FSX performs fine on my computer, I average 17FPS at the busiest of airports and 40+ FPS outside them... all this on a AMD 3500+.5) Some of you really are sounding quite pathetic. I am hearing numerous "essay" type messages about how terrible MS and FS is, including FSX and design decisions. Lets face it, you guys like FS or you wouldn't be complaining. I am willing to bet half the people complaining so violently made their purchase the day FSX was released and were frothing at the mouth when they opened the box.Well, I seem to have dropped a virtual bombshell. Respond as you wish, I doubt I will respond again. I am going to play my simulator and enjoy it, along with all the payware being released daily.

>" I have now lifted my self-imposed embargo on purchasing any further FS9 addons that was instigated because the new sim had arrived. >< In the meantime, FS9 still has a lot of potential and I will continue supporting payware and freeware developers on this platform.Gary">I'm with Gary; FSX runs just fine on my box, with the tweaks and pretty high sliders. But it's with the Flight1 Cessna, my RA Spit or the C. Eagle.I think I'm like most of "you guys/gals" out there.I spend a good amount of this "sim world" time is spent doing what we're doing right now: i.e. reading and conversing online with you guys/gals an AvSim, and mooching to other sites occasionally: A second big chunk is actually using the sim; creating flight plans, practising aerobatics, running Vatsim, doing bad weather cargo flights, IFR, into the Alps, etc., or whatever turns your flying crank.Thirdly - a very large component of simming, and an important "thrill" for the human being, is the expression of having wealth; we love to spend - and that is where a huge number of us spend time, browsing reviews, browsing Cloud9, browsing PMDG - and buying - as I did for the first time in a while, two days ago - a new aircraft for the stable, or a new chunk of scenery. $25 bucks every now and then, spent on yourself, gives one a warm feeling; searching out something "new"; a feeling of anticipation; an excitement; something away from the j.o.b, something very personal for each of us; that will give us a new pleasure. FSX has taken that away. The transistion didn't ocur. It will be a good, long time before that same shopping plaza is as full as it is for FS9. It will put some developers out of the business; it will disappoint and turn away potential new simmers; and it will probably put some of the long-time simmers off the hobby altogether. I miss my Portland Scenery: I miss my Fly Tampa airports; I miss my DreamFleet 727, and FS Nav and FS Passengers. Two days ago I ran FS9 for the first time in three weeks: I went online and purchased the Dornier and flew it from FT KSEA (VFR and some night), down to it's new home at Hillsboro - Flight Scenery's Portland. Tonight I will ferry SibWings Safir to the same place. I am back into Flight Simulator!

I have purchased every version of FS since the 80's up to FS9.I have purchased almost every payware heavy, GE, Active Sky, Mesh, etc...My FS9 looks awesome and runs nicely on my Athalon 3500.Is it perfect? No. Still some stutters, loading delays, screwed up ATC - AI performance etc...These were the improvements I was hoping for in FSX.I was an X-Plane user for a while until I jumped the fence some years ago. One thing that Austin, (The developer of X-Plane) always did was OPTIMIZE each successive version to IMPROVE performance.I can't understand what MS was thinking with FSX.An "all in one package" with no add on capability, designed for a high end system a year from now?Personally, I paid almost $100 for an Ariane 738 V3.I surely would have paid that much for a major performance upgrade for FS9.Sorry MS,I will not be purchasing FSX.

Hi "Valkyrie321".I bet that there are only a handful simmers represented here at AVSIM, who think they "like" FSX. And I say simmers,...because I am sure that many gamers likes it. :-lolhttp://www.scandicair.com/images/sa_banner.gifDell Dimension 4600 P4/2.8 at 3.0 Ghz1024 Mb DDR333 Dual channel memory (2x256,1x512)AGP 256 Mb ATI Radeon X850 Pro ViVo, flashed to a X850 XT PE. Omega 2.6.87 (CAT 5.12)DirectX 9.0cW XP Home with SP2E171FPb Flat panel monitor 17"370Gb HD (120 GB Maxtor, 250GB Samsung) 7200rpm ATA Lacie 250Gb Extern HDBlogg: http://blogg.passagen.se/primeaviFiles: http://library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=...&Go=Change+View