I think flying is much more enjoyable when using assisted rudder on runway. It feels more true to life actually. The excessive yawing in crosswind is really annoying. Try it, maybe you like it. But be prepared for wing tipping when you leave the tarmac.

2 minutes ago, Borgillios said:

I think flying is much more enjoyable when using assisted rudder on runway. It feels more true to life actually. The excessive yawing in crosswind is really annoying. Try it, maybe you like it. But be prepared for wing tipping when you leave the tarmac.

You mean this takeoff assistance option? It can be very, very annoying in strong crosswind because on the runway the plane behaves very tame but once in the air the crosswind hits you like a hammer.

In strong crosswinds I get pushed off the runway in some aircraft. I prefer the hammer on take off.

No...crosswinds are fun, get yourself some decent rudder pedals.

Fun to a certain limit. When full rudder deflection don´t help I can´t se how rudder pedals would do better. How can I improve ground steering under crosswind conditions?

Every aircraft has a max crosswind value. The 172 has 15 knts, the Caravan 20 kts and so on. I never found it impossible to takeoff or land within those limits. I am not a real world pilot, so my experience is only with sims. In my experience in MSFS and other simulators crosswinds can be handled even with a joystick Z-axis. I just tried a 15 knot crosswind at takeoff with the 172 and it was unproblematic. Then I tried 24 knots which was simply not possible. I think that's realistic.

I am not sure if a real small aircraft (or even a tail dragger) can safely be maneuvred on ground with strong winds. But this should be answered by real pilots.

Edited March 12, 20215 yr by crimplene

I flew a light sport in 15-18 knot crosswinds often. Absolutely no issue on the ground - I recently turned on the assistance and found it much more “realistic” feeling. Can’t stand the fight with the rudder pedals in the sim. 

6 minutes ago, crimplene said:

Every aircraft has a max crosswind value. The 172 has 15 knts, the Caravan 20 kts and so on.

Maximum demonstrated crosswind value.  Not maximum possible crosswind value.

The maximum demonstrated crosswind value is the highest crosswind component which the official manufacturer test pilot landed safely at.  For various legal reasons manufacturers tend to keep this value slightly low.  It is generally not illegal to land at a higher crosswind value but may be ill considered.

In theory the maximum demonstrated crosswind should not require exceptional skill and should be easily achieved by an ordinary pilot, however not all pilots will have the skills or recent experience to handle it.   Exceeding the demonstrated value will place extra demands on the pilot and the aircraft and there is a very real risk of damaging the landing gear or blowing a tire if done incorrectly, especially if fully loaded.  An accident while exceeding the maximum demonstrated value may cause issues with any insurance claims as well.

This is a good video on how to determine it for your own aircraft.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Maximum demonstrated crosswind value.  Not maximum possible crosswind value.

The maximum demonstrated crosswind value is the highest crosswind component which the official manufacturer test pilot landed safely at.  For various legal reasons manufacturers tend to keep this value slightly low.  It is generally not illegal to land at a higher crosswind value but may be ill considered.

In theory the maximum demonstrated crosswind should not require exceptional skill and should be easily achieved by an ordinary pilot, however not all pilots will have the skills or recent experience to handle it.   Exceeding the demonstrated value will place extra demands on the pilot and the aircraft and there is a very real risk of damaging the landing gear or blowing a tire if done incorrectly, especially if fully loaded.  An accident while exceeding the maximum demonstrated value may cause issues with any insurance claims as well.

This is a good video on how to determine it for your own aircraft.

 

 

Thx for the video and the explanation! Yes, the 172 can handle a bit more than the 15 kts of crosswind - I tried 18 or 19 knots with no big difficulty in the sim. But the amount of rudder you have to use gets nearer the maximum deflection (right term? not my first language...) which can be very dangerous if the wind gets only a little bit stronger.

1 hour ago, Borgillios said:

Fun to a certain limit. When full rudder deflection don´t help I can´t se how rudder pedals would do better. How can I improve ground steering under crosswind conditions?

Read that https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/maneuvers/how-to-make-a-perfect-crosswind-takeoff-in-your-airplane-every-single-time/

and report 😉 😀 ! 

The rudder helps to counter the aircraft weathervaning (tendency of the aircraft nose to drift directly into the wind) but you also need to deflect the aileron into the wind to keep both wings level. If not, one wing will fly faster than the other and the aircraft will drift to the side.

If you fly a taildragger keep the stick fully aft at the start of the run to have a better directional control.

And yes! rudder pedals make a world of difference.

Not a pilot but an old simmer,

Edited March 12, 20215 yr by Dominique_K

1 hour ago, crimplene said:

 I tried 18 or 19 knots with no big difficulty in the sim. But the amount of rudder you have to use gets nearer the maximum deflection (right term? not my first language...) which can be very dangerous if the wind gets only a little bit stronger.

 

The trick is to use yoke as well.

Back stick with a headwind, forward stick with a tail wind and use left or right yoke into the crosswind.

" Climb into a headwind, dive away from a tailwind. "

Just did a quick test in the Steam Gauge C172 - 28 knot crosswind with random 5 knot gusts. Not something I would attempt in real life but quite manageable in sim.

Note the full right yoke into the crosswind on take-off roll.  Also no flaps and easy on the throttle.  30 knot landings are also possible in game with the 172 but tend to be messy.

 

 

Edited March 12, 20215 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

17 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

 

The trick is to use yoke as well.

Back stick with a headwind, forward stick with a tail wind and use left or right yoke into the crosswind.

" Climb into a headwind, dive away from a tailwind. "

Just did a quick test in the Steam Gauge C172 - 28 knot crosswind with random 5 knot gusts. Not something I would attempt in real life but quite manageable in sim.

Note the full right yoke into the crosswind on take-off roll.  Also no flaps and easy on the throttle.  30 knot landings are also possible in game with the 172 but tend to be messy.

 

 

Interesting, thx! One little observation, though: the wind speed setting somehow does not translate into the exakt speed at ground level but only several feet above ground (100 or so). To check the wind speed the plane is actually experiencing I had to read out the values with the vfr map plugin that shows the correct wind speed around the aircraft. Settings of 28 knots in the weather menu can mean only 15 to 20 kts on the ground. Is that normal or a bug? Is the maximum demonstrated crosswind value for the wind speed at ground level or at a specified altitude above ground? In/for what height is the wind speed usually measured and anounced? 

Right now I am quite annoyed with the sim because a perfect flight in Washington state with 60fps suddenly turnded into a 3fps slide show the program didn't bother to recover from... 😞

 

Edited March 12, 20215 yr by crimplene

11 minutes ago, crimplene said:

Interesting, thx! One little observation, though: the wind speed setting somehow does not translate into the exakt speed at ground level but only several feet above ground (100 or so). To check the wind speed the plane is actually experiencing I had to read out the values with the vfr map plugin that shows the correct wind speed around the aircraft. Settings of 28 knots in the weather menu can mean only 15 to 20 kts on the ground. Is that normal or a bug? Is the maximum demonstrated crosswind value for the wind speed at ground level or at a specified altitude above ground? In/for what height is the wind speed usually measured and anounced? 

IRL it is all pretty much based on what is happening at ground level. 

I am not sure what the sim actually does but they should really be modelling severe wind shear effects if it suddenly changed as you approached the ground.  The windsock is indicating more like 10 to 15 knots as 28 knots would be pretty much fully horizontal.

You would also not be taking-off in a c172 with a 28  knot crosswind on a normal runway unless you had a modified plane with a huge rudder.   Airliners are a different matter there xwind component can be up around 50 knots:

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2006/11/airbus-a380-beats-expectations-during-heavy-crosswind-tests-in-iceland.html

Edited March 12, 20215 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick