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pkofman

Doubled frame rates?????

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Hi All,Messing about on a long flight today, as you do, right clicked in 'spot view', then clicked the 'undock window' option. Imediately my frame rate doubled, tried it in VC with the same result. I may be suffering from mental delusion or something more serious! Can others just give this a try and see what gives please? My system is below.BTW it works in FS9 as well!Edit.... Sorry, I always fly in windowed mode and the above results were in that mode, not tried it full screen.Thanks in advance,CheersSid. OS Name Microsoft Windows XP ProfessionalVersion 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600System Manufacturer ASUSTEK COMPUTER INCSystem Model P5W DH DeluxeSystem Type X86-based PCProcessor x86 Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 6 GenuineIntel ~2404 MhzProcessor x86 Family 6 Model 15 Stepping 6 GenuineIntel ~2404 MhzBIOS Version/Date American Megatrends Inc. 1305, 28/08/2006SMBIOS Version 2.3Total Physical Memory 3,072.00 MBAvailable Physical Memory 1.51 GBTotal Virtual Memory 2.00 GBAvailable Virtual Memory 1.96 GBPage File Space 4.85 GBNVIDIA GeForce 7950 GX2 (just the one)Drive Maxtor 160MB (nothing special, just standard)

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Can't tell, when I tried it, I lose the FPS info in undocked mode

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Hi,I experienced the same thing using ATI tray tools and turning on the frame counter. However when it read as 30 the sim seemed to be doing only half that. In other words I don't think it is a doubling of actual framerates because at 30 it looked like my regular 15 and when it read 40 it looked like my regular 20. I can easily tell the difference between 15 and 20 fps. Anything below 20 or 21 and I can see that it does not appear as smooth animation.I wished the doubling of fps were true, but I believe it is some issue with the way frames are being calc'd in this windowed undocked mode.Thanks,Tom

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I tried this a couple of different ways and it seems to help. I sat on a runway with AI traffic turned up. My FPS went from around 11-15 to 25-30 and the vechicles went from jumpy to smooth for me.

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HiIncredible it works - I was getting 20 fps with VFR Horizon now have seen 100!!!!!! fps ##### (excuse me)techies if you can sus why this is FSX will live lolsir you are a lucky genius!btw I think it is double the frame counter I use is Ttools but apart from that its smooth and heli rotors look way differentI can fly over heathrow 100% AI if I lock again its a slide showRich

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Congratulations! You just found the ultimate performance "holy grail" for both versions of FS, but as the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished! :) It seems if you undock the window then you can no longer see the ATC window, (Or any other!) and it only works in window mode. If MS/Aces can figure out how to keep the windows (ATC etc...) this could definitely be the magic bullet we're all hoping for!!

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I am at FL240 enroute from PBI to MCO for a short flight in the default 737, with real time weather...all is smooth. I use 2 monitors and cam move all sub-panels to it so I see them all...SWEET!

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>Hi,>>I experienced the same thing using ATI tray tools and turning>on the frame counter. However when it read as 30 the sim>seemed to be doing only half that. In other words I don't>think it is a doubling of actual framerates because at 30 it>looked like my regular 15 and when it read 40 it looked like>my regular 20. I can easily tell the difference between 15>and 20 fps. Anything below 20 or 21 and I can see that it>does not appear as smooth animation.>>I wished the doubling of fps were true, but I believe it is>some issue with the way frames are being calc'd in this>windowed undocked mode.>>Thanks,>>TomYeah, I wouldn't start filling the holy grail with scotch just yet. I'm getting 2 windows, one is my normal FS window w/ the FR counter still says 30 after undocking, but the picture is all black, the undocked window loses the counter but retains the picture but still feels the same.i dont have any external FR counter, but i suspect it's reading FR's from both windows.I'm not seeing, or should i say, FEELING a doubling of framerates.but they's all different aint they...

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I only have fs9 working. Flying out of JFK I normally get 13fps. After undocking FRAPS said 26. However I could see no difference between the "stuttering" due to the low frame rate in either case. I expected it to become smoother at 26 but could not see it. The FSX frame rate counter remains at 13, even after undocking. I'll try on fsx next time I have it working.

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Hi All,I tried this again and as I mentioned in my previous post in this thread I think it has to do with how the FPS counters FRAPS ot ATI tray tools reads the FPS in this undocked windowed mode. If you drag the top FSX window down slightly in the undocked mode you will see the FSX parent window behind it and you can now see/display the FSX FPS. As I thought it shows exactly half of what the FRAPS or ATI Tray Tool displays at the same time. There is no acutal frame rate gain here.I wish this were the cure just like everyone else but I don't think it makes any difference.Thanks,Tom

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Didn't do a thing for me, glad people are trying to help though.Jeff

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This seemed to work for me in windowed mode. Yes...I lost Shift+z FPS info, and sometimes I was able to get it into Full screen mode and make it work. It was intermittent though, and I couldn't always make it work. But when it did work....Oh yes...It WORKED. In KSEA with my Marchetti 260, I was able to shift to full screen, and couldn't bring up the FPS counter (which means it worked) and I flew around the city and whereabouts with ZERO slowdown, and I was sure that my FPS were up tremendously. However, I couldn't check it. Other times, I couldn't get it to transfer to full screen.You've hit upon something here, I'm sure, but how can we get it to work continuously?I'm pretty impressed...but I'm at a loss as to how to make this function on an ongoing basis. GREAT FIND.

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No snake oil for me - this one really worked, and nothing else I've tried really has. So far I've enjoyed FSX with 60% Ultimate Traffic AI and sparce autogen in Alaska and Canada with FR between 15-35. I used the frame rate counter on ATI tray tools. Ran it normal mode to make sure the rates were the same showing at the shift z rates. Then undocked. Frame rates doubled over PANC from 16 to 32. I put ai full with Ultimate Traffic and frame rates went from 9-11 to 24-26 and the plane flew very smoothly. Just for grins, I put traffic full and autogen full! Frames were still 20 over downtown Anchorage 6-10 in windowed mode.I'm a skeptical soul and I'm delighted with this find. Your results may vary, but I'm loving it.P4/3.2gHz 2 gig RAM ATI X850XT PE

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Hi,Please try this by dragging the undocked window down. you will then see the parent FSX window and you can bring up the FSX fps. you will see there is no difference. ATI Tray Tools and Fraps are doing some kind of double counting in this mode, possibly because there are two FSX windows open the parent (black) and the actaul view window. there is no doubling of actual frame rates. From my previous post in this thread:If you drag the top FSX window down slightly in the undocked mode you will see the FSX parent window behind it and you can now see/display the FSX FPS. As I thought it shows exactly half of what the FRAPS or ATI Tray Tool displays at the same time. There is no acutal frame rate gain here.Tom

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After further testing, I agree with you Tom, this is nothing but a false reading from the FPS counters. I setup a condition (At JFK) where I was only getting 12-14FPS, so I could visually see the difference if it actually did improve performance. Then I undocked the window, my frame rate counter (ATI Tray Tools) shot up to 33-36, but visually nothing changed, it wasn't smooth like an actual 30+ frame session would be. It was a good find, but unfortunately it was just a mirage! I guess we'll just have to keep searching for that elusive magic bullet!! I'm happy mostly with the performance I'm getting now in most situations, I just could use a little more in dense city areas in dense weather conditions, and it would be perfect! (Performance wise!)

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I also have to agree that this ~doubling of the FPS measurement (by FRAPS) after undocking the view is an artifact. But maybe not entirely... Some months ago in FS9 cockpit view, I observed a doubling of the FPS (with FRAPS) after undocking "cockpit view 00". That's the one you get when you right-click on the scenery out in front of the plane and undock it. I moved that window to the 2nd monitor. With this configuration, you can read both the in-game FPS and FRAPS. The in-game was ~30 (unlocked); FRAPS was 60+. I don't think I had ever seen 60 FPS with either counter before that. I didn't know what 60 FPS "felt" like, but performance didn't seem different. So I thought I'd load up the B-25J from MAAM (my biggest FR sucker), went to SeaTac, maxed everything in the game and on the plane. Opened up all the windows, kneeboard with FSMMM, radios, ATC, spotter view inset, every window I could, as I recall. TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=21. Results: In cockpit view, ~9-10 FPS on both the in-game FPS counter and FRAPS. With undocked "cockpit view 00" moved to 2nd monitor and expanded to full screen, undocked spotter view inset window moved to 2nd monitor, guages and other windows still on 1st monitor. Results: The in-game FPS counter remained at 9-10 FPS. FRAPS was ~20-24 FPS. Now, I did know the difference between 10 FPS and 20 FPS and the more accurate measurement was 10. However, I did notice that when I moved "cockpit view 00" back and forth between 1st and 2nd monitor, The in-game FPS measurement often, but not always, INCREASED 3-5 FPS with "cockpit view 00" ON 2nd MONITOR FULL SCREEN. That didn't seem intuitive to me, pushing more hardware and all. I posted in AV Sim FS9 forum asking about this observation and hoping I could get some advice on how to reliably get this FR increase, but no one had a clear answer as I recall. After reading this thread earlier today, I tried the undocking exercise in FSX and saw the ~doubling of FR with FRAPS, 6 to 12 at PDX (everything maxed out), but actual performance didn't reflect that increase, or any apparent qualitative improvement.I'm obviously no techy or FS guru, but my experience does not suggest that undocking view(s) doubles FPS. The FRAPS measurements when running FSX/FS9 with undocked views vs docked views is always approximately a 2 to 1 ratio. This strongly suggests that FRAPS is double counting the undocked views. There may be something to undocking views, a few FPS maybe. I almost always fly now with undocked view configurations in both FS9 and FSX. BTW, when I do see increased FR with undocked views, it works both ways. If I move the guages, other window views, etc., to the second monitor and leave the outside scenery expanded to full-screen on the 1st monitor, the FR increase still occurs. Guess that makes sense. Now, if someone can explain how to get this result consistently...Rob

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You'e right Tom. It's a glitch in the way the FPS counters are working. This subject had been around for a couple of months now and no one has been able to show an actual FPS increase.Doug

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If anyone runs a dual monitor setup, you'll see that FRAPS will also double it's FPS display if you are running both monitors. I assume the Parent/Child window situation works the same way.

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This is all really interesting and glad to see that everyone is trying to work out a fix for fsx fps. But one thing that is really basic and I may have missed it is , where did you all get the external fps counter. I tried the above fix and in undocked mode I lost the fps counter.Thanks in advance... PeterPeter KCF-MMZToronto Ontario CanadaPMDG 747,737and 747F

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Ok - no further argument from me. I will continue to enjoy flying my plane with sliders full right while you all hash this out!Cheers

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>>This is all really interesting and glad to see that everyone>is trying to work out a fix for fsx fps. But one thing that>is really basic and I may have missed it is , where did you>all get the external fps counter. I tried the above fix and>in undocked mode I lost the fps counter.>>>Thanks in advance... Peter>>>>Peter K>CF-MMZ>Toronto Ontario Canada>PMDG 747,737and 747FThe most common way is by using a program called FPAPS, this will display the framerate in the corner of your screen, (As well making in game videos and screenshots). Google "fraps" to find it There is a free version and a pay one. The free one limits you to make videos in half screen mode and is limits to 30 seconds. The pay version removes this limitation. Another way for those with ATI cards is a utility called ATI Tray tools it takes the place and is less resource hungry then ATI's Catalyst Control Center. It doesn't work though with Nvidia graphic cards, just ATI.

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