I just performed several stalls--with and without flaps, with and without power, from straight-and-level, and in turns--in the FSX C172S, and in all respects it behaved very much like the real airplane. I used a Saitek Aviator joystick as the primary input device.I also held the airplane in the stall by maintaining full back stick after the initial break, and again, the airplane behaved much like a real C172 does in a similar maneuver, with the airplane entering a gentle phugoid motion as it descended.I often use Flight Simulator (2004 or FSX) in exactly this fashion to demonstrate the procedures for and general effects of stalls before lessons with students in real airplanes.I suspect that folks doing "back flips" either have a problem with the controller or settings that they're using and that they're inadvertently overcontrolling. It's easy to forget that very small inputs on a computer joystick or yoke often correspond to large deflections of control services, largely because the range of motion of PC controls is so limited compared to that of the flight controls in a real airplane.

I was going to check, it HAS to be sensitivity settings with the logitech controller I am using. I have noticed it seems hyper sensitive, and is probably giving me WAY to much control throw, for very little movement. Are you using the default sensitivities, or have you modified yours...thanks in advance, when I get home I will try lowering, and see what happens.danon -

>The default c172 doesnt stall realistically.> I had an intresting flight the other day. I was flying with>Carenado C206. When I went over a ridge near Grand Canyon, all>of a sudden my plane pitched downward and was going towards>the ground. I didnt have any control over tha plane. at about>100-500 feet I was able to get control and pitch up. I dont>know what happend, but maybe I hit a microburst or something.>LOL! Don't feel bad, I had that happen in a Piper Cherokee IRL in Southern California. Very scary! Obviously, I survived altho I recall my shorts were a wee bit stained.VicVisit the Virtual Pilot's Centerwww.flightadventures.comhttp://www.hifisim.com/Active Sky V6 Proud SupporterRadar Contact Supporter: http://www.jdtllc.com/

I rarely, if ever, fiddle with the control sensitivities in Flight Simulator. Tweak one thing, and you're likely to mess up another. Soon you'll lose track of which variables you've changed and how one change affects another. And in the end, trying to create "real" control feel when using consumer-grade controllers on a PC is a quixotic quest.In my opinion, the better approach is, with practice, to calibrate your inputs, just as one does when switching between aircraft (or cars, for that matter). I regularly and instruct in fly a variety of airplanes, ranging from familiar, venerable C172s to new Diamonds, from cruisers like the A36 Bonanza and C210 to aerobatic craft like the Zlin 242L and Extra 300L. Some have yokes (with and without downsprings); others have sticks (some flown with the left hand, others with the right). Although all of these aircraft respond to control inputs in the same general way, switching among airplanes always requires at least a few moments of adjustment to get back in the groove with a particular mount.Virtual aviators flying Flight Simulator go through the same process as pilots adapting to aircraft in the real world. They overcontrol, enter PIOs (make inputs out of phase with the airplane, leading to ever-increasing excursions), and, most importantly, are too quick to fiddle with things. A little patience often yields big rewards.

>Virtual aviators flying Flight Simulator go through the same>process as pilots adapting to aircraft in the real world. They>overcontrol, enter PIOs (make inputs out of phase with the>airplane, leading to ever-increasing excursions), and, most>importantly, are too quick to fiddle with things. A little>patience often yields big rewards.Happily, I got very use to those short 2" sticks on R/C transmitters, years ago. So I just have to work up from there! :D And in a way, it's made it so that I don't have a tendency to over control, whether it's a Cessna, Pitt's, RV, etc.But........regardless, I still can't get these simulated Cessna's to do back flips! I wondered if some are applying too much back pressure with too much flying speed still available. I tried that to an extent, but the nose just raised and then stalled, in which the nose drops. Perhaps these airspeeds are even higher, than what I tried. Maybe high enough to shed a wing in real life?L.Adamson

well, i can do it. Perhaps I have a super joystick, or some amazing talent....sarcasm...cough...sarcasm. As I said previously...from SLOW flight config. Dont worry about it if you CANT do it. Just be happy. Im using a logitech extreme 3d pro, who knows. Everything else is realistic, except the stalls in a 172. Im not worried about it, just thought it was hilarious to do a slow reverse rollover sub 40 knots. sink...sink...rolllllllll. If I had the patience to make a video I would.....but alas..back to my flight.take careDanon O.

>And all that happens is that if I continue holding the yoke>the entire plane points nose up, then does a backflip.Mistery resolved maybe...In my case, I can easily backflip default C172 if pitch trim is set full back. Even at nearly 0 airspeed it backflips, better than an Edge 540 could ever do. :( I guess it's time they revamp default flight dynamics...Marco

>Mistery resolved maybe...>>In my case, I can easily backflip default C172 if pitch trim>is set full back. Even at nearly 0 airspeed it backflips,>better than an Edge 540 could ever do. :( I guess it's time>they revamp default flight dynamics...>>Okay, I just tried this scenario, and it worked. But....In real life, you're going to know immediately that your airplane is way out of trim. And happily, you can over ride this full aft trim with the yoke, and I'm 99% sure it's possible in the real Cessna too. So.............nobody is going to be pulling full aft on the yoke to land, just after they were pushing forward with full might, just to stay level! This is just one area where a joystick spring doesn't even get close to reproducing the effect of a badly out of trim airplane! Perhaps it's the only time I'd actually like an FF stick! :-hah So all in all, I don't believe a "revamp" of flight dynamics is in order, for an event that is normally Way out of the normal flight envelope. :7 L.Adamson