DX10 picture..

[JSkorna 137]

Hi,Who Phil is:http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/default.aspxHe has no explaining to do.It is not part of his job.Yes, you might say that. (Meant in a kind way, not a mean way)Jimhttp://www.hifisim.com/Active Sky V6 Development Team Active Sky V6 Proud SupporterHiFi Beta TeamRadar Contact Supporter: http://www.jdtllc.com/AirSource Member: http://www.air-source.us/FSEconomy Member:http://www.fseconomy.com/

[Guest robains]

This might explain:http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/I don't know the specific reference to "explaining". I do know that Phil's spin of the "current" state of FSX has left me wondering if he and his team are truely up to the challenge.I have removed FSX and find myself still enjoying FS9 & 3rd party add-ons -- I will of course test out SP1 for FSX when/if it becomes available. But I have low expectations of SP1 based on what Phil as committed to (see his blog).I'm very curious as to what will be done for DX10 and if they opt for a 64bit version. For me to consider a DX10 version of FSX (which means a Vista install) it would need to really "wow" me in these areas:1. 2X frame rate performance improvement (using equal quality settings - no cheating Aces)2. Significantly improved visual quality over FS93. Fix the ground traffic bug that will crash taxiing AC4. 64bit support with >4GB RAM usageI would have to give up many very smooth and functional games when I do a Vista install, not sure I'm ready to do that just for DX10 version of FSX unless it really did WOW me (see items 1-4).Rob.

[DadJokeCinema 145]

Just out of curiosity, which games would you have to give up for Vista? I play quite a few, and have yet to run into compatibility issues.

[Murmur 3,941]

>I'm still curious as to who this Phil is, that has to do some>explaining and why?They're talking about Punxsutawney Phil, of course! He will emerge from his home in Redmond and tell us if SP1 will arrive early, or if we'll have six more weeks of poor FSX performance. :(Marco

[Guest robains]

Battlefield 2142 Doom 3Falcon 4Civilization IVGTR2Papyrus Nascar Racing 2003John Carmack opinion on DX10 and Vista. I have respect for John, he's not about smoke and mirrors and has a very impressive technical depth.http://www.dailytech.com/John+Carmack+Spea...article5665.htmA good read.Rob.

[Mace 1,927]

>>1. 2X frame rate performance improvement (using equal quality>settings - no cheating Aces)>2. Significantly improved visual quality over FS9>3. Fix the ground traffic bug that will crash taxiing AC>4. 64bit support with >4GB RAM usage>If those are your expectations, then they are set too high.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

[aerdt 0]

DX10 is surely promising. The only real DX10 renders that I have seen came from the Crysis engine and they look pretty darn close to the artist's FSX rendition pictured by the original poster.It is too early to speculate how will it affect performance, if it will relieve the CPU (and to what degree) and how it will really look like, but one thing is for sure: It'll take flight simming graphics to the next level.Time will tell.Pat

[PhilTaylor 45]

We never said 64-bit support, which really has nothing to do with performance. We said "performance and specific content fixes".

[Guest robains]

I don't think they are set too high (perhaps yours are set very low). All of those items listed are very doable and possible to accomplish in a reasonable time frame. If DX10 is used as intended, it could easily provide 2X performance increase with the same visual quality. DX10 should also permit the addition of new visual FX, these could impact performance (but goes beyond what we currently have). BUT, if you compare the same visual quality of the DX9 vs. DX10 version, then the DX10 version on DX10 hardware should provide at least a 2X improvement.Why DX10 will improve fps:Direct3D 10 Texture arraysInstancing 2.0Paging VRAMRapid occlusion cullingEven if Aces don't do much work with fully programmable pipelines, those items above will be a significant boost for all DX10 capable graphics hardware if used correctly.But to be very clear, using similar feature sets as applied either by the video driver settings or via FSX for DX10 would render a 2X increase in performance. I would expect there to be additional graphics options available in DX10 version of FSX -- turning these options on (or increase the slider) to improve realism/quality could have significant performance implications (just as it does now). My expectations for SP1 for DX9 version is low -- I hope they address at least some of the very obvious bugs. If they can achieve a 25% boost in performance, then they could probably consider that a victory based on the limitations they've impossed on themselves.Phil does seem to be concerned that 3rd Party vendors are influencing the "performance" side of FSX in order to retain compatibility. I hope 3rd party vendors are NOT doing that -- I'd gladly give up compatibility support if there were a good promise of increased performance (besides, it'll give vendors a reason to sell a "new" product).Rob.

[Guest robains]

Phil,That is my wish list for DX10 version, I know you never committed to 64bit. If you can make it work well on 32bit then obviously no real need for 64bit -- 64bit would be justified only if you can make use of the memory address space and improved arithmetic accuracy (flight dynamics).64bit does have an impact on performance, in most cases a very slight negative impact, but if used wisely can be made to increase peformance simply because you can have an application thread beyond 2GB which could permit the pre-loading of textures (scenery) and leverage some of the new features available in DX10.I know I've been pretty hard on you Phil and I would love to see you come back and say "I told you so". I would praise you and your efforts -- but the current state of FSX has left me naturally skeptical and negative.As with some other folks here, I started on SubLogic for my TRS80.Rob.

[Guest]

>Battlefield 2142 >Doom 3>Falcon 4>Civilization IV>GTR2>Papyrus Nascar Racing 2003>>John Carmack opinion on DX10 and Vista. I have respect for>John, he's not about smoke and mirrors and has a very>impressive technical depth.>>http://www.dailytech.com/John+Carmack+Spea...article5665.htm>>A good read.>>Rob.Actually, have zero respect for John Carmack here, what's he ever done for a proper simulation of anything? it was Gilman Louie that was responsible for Falcon 4 and 3, everyone knows that.If he has his way, we all be on consoles quite soon.Read it and weep.

[Guest]

Yep time certainly will tell. Fall to be more specific (the "wow" is not quite "now", I guess). I have a feeling Aces is going to regret making those pictures since that is now what they have to shoot for if they don't want to look like fools.

[PhilTaylor 45]

The first 2 DX10 features will definitely be used. They are critical to getting another performance increase beyond what SP1 gets us.Paging VRAM is just a benefit we get from being on DX10.Occlusion culling and alpha-to-coverage we are investigating how much benefit we get. And hopefully the per-Draw call overhead reduction shows us benefit as well. And that is potentially a big win for us.It is too early to discuss perf goals and what the FSX DX10 features will be. I do promise to come back and talk to that, but not now. I need to ship SP1 first.

[Guest robains]

Actually John has done a lot for real world rocket science.http://news.com.com/Doom+creator+turned+ro..._3-6133892.htmlHe's gone beyond "simulation".If you read the article, he has no love for consoles, it's just where the market goes.Rob.

[Mace 1,927]

>I don't think they are set too high (perhaps yours are set>very low). Yes, my expectations for SP1 are set quite low. It's a defense mechanism. I am never disappointed, you see? And, if things turn out better than I expect, I am happier yet.That way, I don't sweat it no matter what happens.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case