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Stutter Experiment - Can I ask you to join in?

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Hi,I know it must be really frustrating for those of us who are forever reading about stutter free setups.As you are probably now aware I have been trying to iron this one out since installing SP1 and currently have achieved a reasonable smooth ride. However, this statement needs to be qualified by saying that this smooth ride is really only seen while flying straight ahead with only minor deviations from course. If I try a steep bank in cockpit the stutters (or small-large brief surges) appear. If I view from spot view the stutters are present; not severe but they are present nonetheless, albeit intermittent.Some of the stuttering coincides with brief HD light activity. These I ignore as the explanation is clear. However, the surges are another matter and have been quite distracting. I am curious to know how many of you are really stutter-free as I am starting to wonder whether I am trying to achieve the unachievable. Perhaps I am setting my sights too high and the achieving of a completely stutter-free sim, while laudible, may be unrealistic bearing in mind the numerous system dependent variables involved.Therefore, I would like you all to conduct a little experiment using the flight situation files which you can download using this link:http://download.xdrive.com/s/437081836rTaw...NP&partner=plusJust unzip them into your My DocumentsFlight Simulator X Files folder and on the 'FREE FLIGHT' screen select 'Load' and then 'Mike_Stutter_Test'.You should find yourself in flight watching the Trike from SPOT view at roughly 1400ft. The Trike is moving right to left. Just let it continue through several 360's or adjust the bank yourself.Note the following:1. Any stutters/surging during several 360's in SPOT view?2. Change to COCKPIT view and try the same. Any stutters/surging?3. Change to TOWER View and fly the Trike at speed with clouds or ground scenery in the background (change altitude as necessary). Any stutters/surging?Thanks!Mike

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Mike Would you be able to post your config settings file as well (as saved from inside FSX)? People could then load up your flight and config settings and try both out at the same time. If you have tweaked fsx.cfg, then these adjustments would be useful too.RegardsDavid

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Just to clarify:'Surges' = periodic side-to-side twitching of the whole scenery window content behind the a/c as viewed mainly, but not exclusively, in SPOT view.Mike

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Hi David,"Would you be able to post your config settings file as well (as saved from inside FSX)? People could then load up your flight and config settings and try both out at the same time."Good point. I did think of this, but, at the time, felt I didn't want to disturb anybody else's settings.Here they are for those who wish to use them:Copy and paste in NOTEPAD and place/save in MY DocumentsFlight Simulator X Files folder as "Stutter_test.cfg":[GRAPHICS]TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD=512NUM_LIGHTS=8AIRCRAFT_SHADOWS=1AIRCRAFT_REFLECTIONS=1COCKPIT_HIGH_LOD=1LANDING_LIGHTS=1AC_SELF_SHADOW=1EFFECTS_QUALITY=2GROUND_SHADOWS=0[sCENERY]LENSFLARE=0DAWN_DUSK_SMOOTHING=1IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=3[DISPLAY]BLOOM_EFFECTS=0SKINNED_ANIMATIONS=1TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=40UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=20[PANELS]QUICKTIPS=1PANEL_OPACITY=100[TERRAIN]LOD_RADIUS=3.500000MESH_COMPLEXITY=100MESH_RESOLUTION=20TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=25AUTOGEN_DENSITY=1DETAIL_TEXTURE=1WATER_EFFECTS=4[WEATHER]CLOUD_DRAW_DISTANCE=3DETAILED_CLOUDS=1CLOUD_COVERAGE_DENSITY=7THERMAL_VISUALS=0DownloadWindsAloft=0DisableTurbulence=0[TrafficManager]AirlineDensity=15GADensity=15FreewayDensity=15ShipsAndFerriesDensity=35LeisureBoatsDensity=35IFROnly=0AIRPORT_SCENERY_DENSITY=3----------------------------------------------------------My current FSX.CFG file:[sOUND]AmbientUIMusicVolume=-6.000000SOUND=1SOUND_QUALITY=2SOUND_LOD=0UISound=1AmbientUI=1[Display]ChangeTime=4.000000TransitionTime=4.000000ActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255ActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=0,28,140,64NonActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255NonActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=24,33,87,64InfoUpperRightTextColor=255,0,0InfoUpperRightBackGroundColor=0,0,0,0InfoLowerLeftTextColor=255,255,255InfoLowerLeftBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128InfoLowerRightTextColor=255,255,255InfoLowerRightBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128InfoBrakesEnable=FalseInfoParkingBrakesEnable=TrueInfoPauseEnable=TrueInfoSlewEnable=TrueInfoStallEnable=TrueInfoOverspeedEnable=TrueBLOOM_EFFECTS=0SKINNED_ANIMATIONS=1TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=40UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=20WideViewAspect=False[Main]User Objects=Airplane, HelicopterSimObjectPaths.0=SimObjectsAirplanesSimObjectPaths.1=SimObjectsRotorcraftSimObjectPaths.2=SimObjectsGroundVehiclesSimObjectPaths.3=SimObjectsBoatsSimObjectPaths.4=SimObjectsAnimalsSimObjectPaths.5=SimObjectsMiscProcSpeed=4629PerfBucket=6Location=124,102,1156,876,.DISPLAY1Maximized=0HideMenuNormal=0HideMenuFullscreen=1[PANELS]IMAGE_QUALITY=1DEFAULT_VIEW=0QUICKTIPS=1PANEL_OPACITY=100PANEL_MASKING=1PANEL_STRETCHING=1UNITS_OF_MEASURE=0[Weather]WindshieldPrecipitationEffects=1MinGustTime=10MaxGustTime=500MinGustRampSpeed=1MaxGustRampSpeed=200MinVarTime=5MaxVarTime=50MinVarRampSpeed=10MaxVarRampSpeed=75TurbulenceScale=1.000000WeatherServerAddress=fs2k.zone.comWeatherServerPort=80WeatherGraphDataInDialog=0AdjustForMagVarInDialog=1DynamicWeather=2DownloadWindsAloft=0DisableTurbulence=0CLOUD_DRAW_DISTANCE=3DETAILED_CLOUDS=1CLOUD_COVERAGE_DENSITY=7THERMAL_VISUALS=0[DISPLAY.Device.Radeon X1950 Pro.0]Mode=1280x1024x32TriLinear=1[CONTROLS]Controls_Default=StandardControls_Current=StandardKBDAIL=64KBDELEV=64KBDRUD=64[TextInfo.1]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5WindDirectionAndSpeed=1,6[TextInfo.2]FrameRate=1,1LockedFrameRate=1,2GForce=1,3FuelPercentage=1,4[TextInfo.3]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5WindDirectionAndSpeed=1,6FrameRate=2,1LockedFrameRate=2,2GForce=2,3FuelPercentage=2,4[slewTextInfo.1]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5[slewTextInfo.2]FrameRate=1,1LockedFrameRate=1,2[slewTextInfo.3]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5FrameRate=2,1LockedFrameRate=2,2[Trusted]D:Program FilesFSDiscover!FSDiscoverFSX.dll.tuqchnbwlntwuileenbbaeieihbnwbruzwkablzb=1D:Program FilesMicrosoft GamesMicrosoft Flight Simulator XGAUGESBendix_King_Radio.DLL.thinnziuuhtzoobhuzbciuiiiwatrauwwhatbboz=2D:Program FilesMicrosoft GamesMicrosoft Flight Simulator XGAUGESMagnetic_Compass.DLL.eobelrrnabeutookbnozbquawauheirhqorlaluw=2[DynamicHeadMovement]LonAccelOnHeadLon=-0.020000LonAccelOnHeadPitch=-0.010000RollAccelOnHeadLat=0.010000YawAccelOnHeadLat=-0.100000RollAccelOnHeadRoll=0.100000MaxHeadAngle=5.000000MaxHeadOffset=0.300000HeadMoveTimeConstant=1.000000[VirtualCopilot]VirtualCopilotActive=1[GRAPHICS]SHADER_CACHE_PRIMED=1693428480TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD=512NUM_LIGHTS=8AIRCRAFT_SHADOWS=1AIRCRAFT_REFLECTIONS=1COCKPIT_HIGH_LOD=1LANDING_LIGHTS=1AC_SELF_SHADOW=1EFFECTS_QUALITY=2GROUND_SHADOWS=0TEXTURE_QUALITY=3IMAGE_QUALITY=0See_Self=1Text_Scroll=1[uSERINTERFACE]OpenATCOnCreate=0PageID=1SHOW_MISSION_CAPTIONS=0PAUSE_ON_LOST_FOCUS=1PROMPT_ON_EXIT=1SITUATION=FLIGHTSOTHERFLTSIMMap_Orientation=2ShowAllACPaintSchemes=0SelectAircraftManufacturer=AllSelectAircraftPublisher=AllSelectAircraftType=All[ATC]ShowATCText=1COMM_MSG_NONE_COLOR=FFFFFFFFCOMM_MSG_ATC_USER_COLOR=FFB6FFB6COMM_MSG_USER_ATC_COLOR=FFFFD21BCOMM_MSG_ATC_AI_COLOR=FF00FF00COMM_MSG_AI_ATC_COLOR=FFFF7840AutoOpenAirTrafficWindow=1UsePilotVoice=1PilotVoice=0[PointOfInterestSystem]CycleSetting=0[sCENERY]LENSFLARE=0DAWN_DUSK_SMOOTHING=1IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=3[TrafficManager]AirlineDensity=15GADensity=15FreewayDensity=15ShipsAndFerriesDensity=35LeisureBoatsDensity=35IFROnly=0AIRPORT_SCENERY_DENSITY=3[TERRAIN]LOD_RADIUS=3.500000MESH_COMPLEXITY=100MESH_RESOLUTION=20TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=25AUTOGEN_DENSITY=1DETAIL_TEXTURE=1WATER_EFFECTS=4[AContain]ShowLabels=1ShowUserLabel=0ShowLabelManufacturer=1ShowLabelModel=1ShowLabelTailNumber=0ShowLabelDistance=1ShowLabelAltitude=1ShowLabelAirline=0ShowLabelAirlineAndFlightNumber=0ShowLabelFlightPlan=0ShowLabelContainerId=0ShowLabelAirspeed=0ShowLabelHeading=0LabelDelay=1000LabelColor=FFFF0000[iNTERNATIONAL]ASLAT=2ASLON=1MEASURE=0[REALISM]PFactor=0.000000Torque=0.000000GyroEffect=0.000000CrashTolerance=0.000000General=0.000000UnlimitedFuel=TrueTrueAirspeed=FalseAutoCoord=FalseRealMixture=FalseStressDamage=FalseGEffect=FalseManualLights=FalseGyroDrift=FalseCrashWithDyn=FalseCrashDetection=FalseAutoTrim=False[sIM]SYSCLOCK=1[sTARTUP]DEMO=0SHOW_OPENING_SCREEN=1STARTUP_DEMO=LoadWindow=1[FACILITIES]COUNTRY=STATE=CITY=GTL_BUTTON=4096[Misc]Com_Rate=7[MULTIPLAYER]condAccoutPassword=0Remember, some of these values are specific for my setup and may not suit everyone.MikeASRock 939Dual-SATA2, AMD Athlon 64X2 4800+ (2400MHz)(Toledo), 2GB Crucial PC3200 DDR400 Ram 3-3-3-8 (2T)(Dual Channel), (PCI-E)Sapphire ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 512MB (Catalyst 7.1 WHQL), SB Audigy2 ZS Platinum (Drivers version 5.12.0001.1196 WHQL), Windows XP Home Edition (SP2), DirectX 9.0c (with 04/2007 update)

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>1. Any stutters/surging during several 360's in SPOT view?>2. Change to COCKPIT view and try the same. Any>stutters/surging?>3. Change to TOWER View and fly the Trike at speed with clouds>or ground scenery in the background (change altitude as>necessary). Any stutters/surging?MikeWell I tried your fsx.cfg and config settings with the saved flight. The SPOT view and the tower view were okay (although the spot view was definitely worse than the tower view). However, the cockpit view was not good - it kept 'lurching' across the screen. I tried the same flight with my settings files and it seemed a bit better. I don't go for as much traffic or cloud draw distance as you so that might have something to do with it. I previously spent a long time tweaking FSX by moving one slider up one notch at a time then watching the flight for about 5 minutes. I stopped moving a particular slider when I considered the level reasonable for my PC. My general impression is that the harder you push your PC, the worse the stutters get. If you get stutters at minimal settings for all tabs, you have a different problem. I have attached my settings and fsx.cfg files if you would like to try them - I would be interested to know if they make any difference.The first file is my settings as saved from FSX, the second file is my version of fsx.cfg.External to these files, I have disabled AA in FSX and enabled it via ATI Tray Tools at 6X. I have a few texure tweaks (e.g. trees) etc but these were the same for your config and files and I did get the stutters with your data.My PC is an AMD 64 3700+ with 1.5GB RAM and an ATI Radeon X800 with 256MB RAM.Davidhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/172751.txthttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/172752.txt

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Hi David,Thanks very much for your comprehensive and extremely helpful response. My first thought is a feeling of relief that I am not alone in what I have been witnessing :) Yes, I am sure you are correct. Starting off with minimal settings and building up gradually is certainly the way to go. In common with most I fear my weakness (achilles heel?), shared by others, is the desire, perhaps inevitably, to push the envelope beyond the capabilities of the hardware.I don't know whether you have noticed but the Radeons seem to be able to cope fine with higher AA settings. I am currently on AA 4x but the higher AA 6x doesn't seem to have all that much of an additional negative effect on frame rates.I will examine your files with great interest but I do still have one remaining 'ace' up my sleeve: As yet I haven't tried the effect of reducing the visibility from unlimited to, say, 30 or 40 miles. This should provide a bit of fps headroom and increased stability with target frame rate remaining locked at 20. It's a pity there is no way to save the visibility setting. Even FSUIPC 4.10 lets me down with this one.Mike

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"1. Any stutters/surging during several 360's in SPOT view?2. Change to COCKPIT view and try the same. Any stutters/surging?3. Change to TOWER View and fly the Trike at speed with clouds or ground scenery in the background (change altitude as necessary). Any stutters/surging?"Hi Mike,I flew your Trike flight for a couple of hours and made changes and reduced sliders along the way. here's what I saw.o MiniStutters and surging in all views but much moreso in spot view.o Reducing ProcSpeed and PerfBucket fron 38nn/5 to 18nn/2 made no difference.o Moving all sliders (one-by-one) to full left made little difference.o Turning off McAfee antivirus/antispyware/firewall made a noticeable improvement.Since getting this system in January, I've been relying on FSAutostart to stop services and programs. I may pay a visit to BlackViper and make a new WinXP config for FSX. I did this on my last system and was pleased with the result.I have an AMD Sempron 3500 @ 2GHz with 2GB RAM and an ATI X1300 Pro with 256MB.R-

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Thanks Ron. Couple of hours! Now there's dedication :)Yes, I always switch off AVG before simming and gaming."I may pay a visit to BlackViper and make a new WinXP config for FSX."I agree, a very worthwhile exercise. The best way to do this is to create a new Hardware Profile, call it something like 'Simming and Gaming' and configure each Service under this profile as appropriate. Just right click on each Service, select Properties, and under the 'Log On' tab enable or disable for the 'Simming and Gaming' Hardware Profile according to your preference. Be careful, some Services should be left well alone. For example many Services depend on the Remote Procedure call (RPC) service so don't disable it! Check the Dependencies as you work your way through the list. I too used Black Viper's list as a useful guide:For Windows XP SP2 Services: http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htmBy creating this additional profile dedicated to "Simming and Gaming" you will have a choice at boot - Your Original profile which remains undisturbed or the "Simming and Gaming" profile with minimal Services running.I see you have an AMD CPU as well. It would be helpful if some Intel owners were to relate their experiences here.Mike

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I also really want to know if people are having this same stutter problem - it seems not that many people. I have an AMD 3800 X2+, onboard graphics - Geforce 6100 and 3GB ram. Before sp1 I notice a little stutters here and there - not a big problem - but when sp1 came these micro stutters were all over the place. It only happens when I have autogen on so I think it might be the way they changed how autrogen is populated. I have tryed tweeks up the ying yang and non of them seem to help much. My settings are really low - everthing all the way down except the mesh settings (in the middle) and autogen at normal. One area I have done allot of testing in is the Jet TRuck Race mission - it's really stuttery there - never used to be before sp1. So tell me how many people have annoying micro stutters like me? - And please don't offer me any suggestions on tweeking, Graphic settings, graphic drivers, and stuff like disabaling your Anti virus. There have been millions of threads like this already and I have tryed this for weeks now. All i wan't to know is are others experiencing stutters. I want to know if it's the programs fault - or truly my computer fault.

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Hi Joey,I assure you that you are not alone. It is difficult to assess the scale of the problem without more feedback. We can only hope that others will respond in time. In particular, it would be useful to hear also from those who are genuinely seeing no stuttering/surging.Clearly there has been a change in the sim's behaviour since the installation of SP1. Prior to SP1 the sim seemed far more tolerant of variations in settings, without stuttering, than it is now.I can understand that many who fly relatively straight courses from A to B will see little or no stuttering. This is my experience. Even in SPOT view when viewing your a/c from behind the stutters are usually minimal. However, the sim is capable of so much more and the appearance of these stutters does mar the pleasure of flying.I suspect we are speaking for a significant number of folk who are presently holding back in the earnest hope some magical solution will soon be forthcoming. There is certainly a lot we can do to mitigate these undesirable effects but it does beg the question as to why this is necessary in the first place. It would also be interesting to hear from the beta testers of SP1. Surely some of them must have seen this problem?Mike

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The surges are very bad for me too. I think this is a nvidia issue. surges are very bad in spot view and worst in instant replay spot view. otherwise my sim is stable @20 fps. This is on the low end machine P3.2 4gb ram 6600gt 128 mb ram card.also, is there any utility to change the shape and size of the autogen buildings? they look horrible.

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449 views and only 4 contributors so far to this experiment! Perhaps I'm out on a limb, but if this issue is in fact more widespread than many hitherto have believed then surely it's important to get this fact out in the open. Only then will we be able to coax those with the knowledge and ability to do something about it for us.It really doesn't require much effort. Just download and install the flight situation, load it in the sim and watch for a few minutes. Your trike will gradually approach the ground with throttle at or near idle so, if you want to repeat the exercise from any altitude, just enter Map and adjust your height to taste.Should you prefer, leave your current settings as they are. After all, if you are genuinely stutter-free then we will all want to know how this was achieved along with your system specs.Thanks.Mike

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I've been waiting for you to fix the download link. I just get an empty page there. ==Marten:Weber==P-D920 oc3.64MHz 2GB RAM WinXP ATI X1900+1024MB 2xSATA250 2xVIEWSONIC 19"Best AI available today: www.world-of-ai.com

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I had "surges" on my ATI card - it's got nothing to do with video. It's the processor catching up. It's basically a bottleneck, either between CPU and bus or bus and card, or somewhere or other. Bad RAM also comes to mind. Some computers will have a mismatch between processor speed and bus speed. HP used to ship tons of computers with slow bus speeds. Motherboards are only now catching up with the requirements of multiple core processors. Especially when overclocked, it's not easy to find the source of a bottleneck. I eliminated all stutters and 'surges' by trying every single overclock setting, and finding one that matched. Temperature is also an issue, a colder PC works after than an overheating unit. ==Marten:Weber==P-D920 oc3.64MHz 2GB RAM WinXP ATI X1900+1024MB 2xSATA250 2xVIEWSONIC 19"Best AI available today: www.world-of-ai.com

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You SHOULD see slight stutters on any system doing 360 degree turns. FS9 had the same issue, but because of much smaller amount of data being processed, you didn't notice it on fast computers. It's irrational to load scenery far out in all directions. When you pan 360 degrees, just like in any turn, you are switching the view to a portion not cached yet, and it shouldn't be cached! If you cache 360 degrees in every instants, you'd be wasting video memory and bandwith. Try setting your frame rate very low, and TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH double the FPS. ==Marten:Weber==P-D920 oc3.64MHz 2GB RAM WinXP ATI X1900+1024MB 2xSATA250 2xVIEWSONIC 19"Best AI available today: www.world-of-ai.com

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