EGCC Runway designator changes - how can FSX be changed?

[Guest AirPierre]

Just a word on Taxi signs at Manchester/EGCC - they do read 05-23 and not 5-23 in real life.

[RFields5421 1]

Thanks Jim / Peter.It will take me most of Saturday to make the changes.

[Guest rf360m]

There is an AFCAD-like program for FSX, it's called FSX Planner and is freely available here: http://www.zbluesoftware.com/clients/FSXPlanner.zipYou can graphically edit any airport and compile it to a bgl file. It allows you to specify wich parts of the airport you want to replace, for example just the runways. It also has a taxiway sign wizard which help you easily create taxiway signs.I hope that helps you with modifying EGCC.If you have any quesions just ask!-Russell

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

Hi Russell,I've installed it and had a quick look. It looks as though it needs some understanding of how all this works in FSX and I'm nowhere near that level of competence.I couldn't see any help within the package and I would really need that before I felt confident enough to change anything in FSX.You may have seen above that Reggie is working hard on producing a modified EGCC. Maybe this program could be helpful to him?Thanks,

[Guest rf360m]

At the moment there is not a manual. That will come though, and of course will make it much easier for you to modify things as it will explain how it all works. We are still adding features to FSX Planner, and are closing in on everything being included.Hopefully it can help Reggie and others modify or create airports for use with FSX! (That is the goal.)-Russell

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

Hi Richard,It sounds like you are part of the team building it. A user manual or embedded help will be great. I never like tinkering - it usually leads to disaster.Maybe we're looking at son of AFCAD? :) That will please a lot of people.Cheers,

[Guest AirPierre]

Hi Russsell,The FXP program is what we have been using to edit Manchester/EGCC (well at least I have; not sure about Reggie?!) and there are still some issues using it that don't add up yet (OK, I know it is in beta - that is why I left you the message in the Developer forum about this thread)!Have a resd thru what has been going on here to get the idea - main things are that the new taxi-signs don't remove the old ones (thought I read somwhere that they should?) and also when I stripped the EGCC airport out of the main XML file not everything was brought over into the raw airport XML file.Cheers,

[Guest rf360m]

Old taxiway signs can be removed with an exclusion rectangle. This is supported in the latest release of FSX Planner. We are also inmproving how exclusion rectangles are created for the next release.I'm not sure what you mean by 'stripped the EGCC airport out of the main XML'. You can select an XML file that contains more than one airport from within FSX Planner. This will then display a dialog letting you choose which airport or airports you want to open from that XML file. Then after you open it the best option if you want an XML file that contains just the airport you are working on is to perform a Save As and save the airport under a different xml file name.I hope that help, and I'll check through all the above posts to see if there is anything else that needs to be explained better or implemented better.Thanks!-Russell

[jvile 1]

There was NEVER a Utility for FS9 that allows us to renumber Runways including AFCAD when a NAVAID for the runway exsited. There is NO Utility available yet including FSX Planner that allows us to renumber runways in FSX when a NAVAID for the runway exsit.On the surface a Airport Utility (AFCAD, FSX Planner, ADE, Airport for Windows, etc.) will renumber the runways but breaks the basic foundation of the unseen scenery which is called the Facility Data.Reggie is well aware of all the programs available (both FS9 and FSX) and what they can and cannot do. Just because someone may not know the names of Reggie Fields or Jim Vile we do know who is doing what and what can be done and not done.Many re-written parts of the Airport Facility data XML must be done using long hand and if past/present Utilities had the ability to do this then everyone would not be up here discussing how to fix EGCC.

[Guest AirPierre]

>There is NO Utility available yet including FSX Planner that>allows us to renumber runways in FSX when a NAVAID for the>runway exsit.Jim, this NOT meant as confrontational but an effort to clarify what you say!!I have used FSXP to change the runway numbers, the taxiways, the taxisigns, the start positions, ILS's etc. etc. and, with Reggies help, the approaches- and it works for me?? What is not happening then that I/We don't know about - please?!MTIA,

[jvile 1]

PeterFSX Planner uses BGL2xml which is based on the SDE Engine decompiler. There are still some approach leg type issues that have not been sorted out completely when decompiling a bgl to xml. This means that EGCC cannot be fixed with any present Utility without writing some of the approach data by hand.

[Guest AirPierre]

Ah Ha, just what I thought but need it clarifying - thanks!Yes, I have been trying to pass this on to Russell recently? (EDIT: later ... messages in the FSDeveloper forum have now clarified this issue)Anyhow, I have been hand-crafting the xml files now and they certainly compile better and, visually in FSX, seem to do the job I want them too?! Fortunately there are no approaches (well at least I don't think there are?) at EGNR which has made life a little easier.As for EGCC; I have taken the files that Reggie did for the approaches and messed slightly with the airport. Just waiting now for Reggies updates to see what I have done (rightly or wrongly?!) before I go any further with that airport.Many thanks for your response; it has helped a lot.Cheers,

[jvile 1]

>>Yes, I have been trying to pass this >on to Russell recently? >later ... messages in the FSDeveloper >forum have now clarified this issue)>I also read the forums over there and was waiting on a response to your questions.The reponse is somewhat vague to say it is a bug with saving approach data. Saving approach data is not a problem but decompiling approach data and then trying to recompile is a problem. SDK's are instructions for adding something to an airport and not always about modifing something that already exsit. There is no BGLC SDK that explains how to decompile what MS designs. In FS9 we have to decompile a airport with 2 different Utilities (NewBglanyalze, BGLX180) in order to extract a complete set of XML records. It then takes combining the 2 XML's based on which decompiler leaves out what data in order to make a airport work.We have to remember that the BGLComp compiler that FS9/FSX uses is not all inclusive and will compile approach data as an incomplete record with no errors. If Approach data has element tags (LegTypes) that don't belong in the XML structure, that is seen as an error.There are still other problems to come which will surface at a later time with some AFCAD style FSX Utilities. Modified Airports placed at a higher priority (addon sceneryscenery folder or higher) always reads backwards to the root bgls only and nothing in between. The AFCAD program understands this so left certain data at the root level purposely. It is up to us to understand if we then write new Facility XML it must be placed in properly layered folders that it belongs in and not where the actual modified airport nest. Just because MS puts the airport and their Facility data in one single bgl does not mean we can in order to get a airport to work correctly.Exposing Approach data in a Airport type Utility and then allowing someone to change that data is going to lead to more problems then corrections. Approach data and associated NAVAIDS are indexed from other bgls based on a block radius. Trying to edit XML in a stand alone complete Airport type bgl (current FSX beta AFCAD style airports) will eventually lead to airport file corruption. Sometimes it is much better to have less available on a grid for modifing a airport then more available. Has anyone determined if EGCC sits on a very close indexed boundary geographically divided sector (LOWI, KSAN, etc.) or is it an airport that nest in the middle of a sector. It is real nice that Approach data is exposed with Airport Utilities but what good is it when no WAYPOINT or TERMINAL_WAYPOINT is read from the indexed boundary squares in each different bgl. That requires reading many bgl files in FS9/FSX. This could be and I say "could be" the case with EGCC when changing approach data that cooresponds to changed runway data and in one of Reggie's post above he has eluted to this issue. Only until you start changing some forms of the XML for airports do you then fine out that the ATC no longer controls the proper behavior of arriving AI Planes into a visual AI sector which is different then the indexed multiple bgl boundary geographical NAVAID sector. When Reggie is finished with his hand written approach code then he will test to see if the precision ILS approaches are still honored correctly when the airport is VMC or will he have to add boundary TERMINAL_WAYPOINTS to hardcode the approach FAF altitude hardfloor so AI Planes don't fall through and end up driving their way to the runway on the ground.

[RFields5421 1]

Available here - http://www.flightsim2004-fanatics.com/uplo...Change_B0-2.zipPrevious version removed.Sorry to be so late - but five grandchildren under age 10 are a lot more fun for a weekend than you guys !!! :-)Changed runways, taxiway signs and approaches to 05 vice 5Tweaked more of the taxi network and parking slightly.I went back to one of the known items about FS2004 and tried a test - setting the runway ends differently for landings and takeoffs. My results were semi-successful.I've include a EGCC_AFX .bgl set that way and one with no runway closures.

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

Hi Reggie,You're worth your weight in gold :-) Thanks very much for working on this when the alternatives were so much more attractive.I'll install the relevant files tomorrow and report back. Peter will probably beat me to it though.Thanks!