EGCC Runway designator changes - how can FSX be changed?

[Guest AirPierre]

.. even later ...The taxi signs (all types) appear to be duplicated with the old ones (06/24 etc.) now with the new signs being slightly off-set to the right and slightly forward of the originals..... and later still ...out of interest I recompiled the beta_xml changing the "5" to "05". Whilst this seemed to sort the landing out (although they laneded short of 05L for some reason?) the taxing aircraft again stopped, all disappearing as they were given the last clearence to contact ground? Aircraft still disappeared on landing but not all (many gates of all types were free).Some odd, related & unrelated issues for sure :(Leaving things alone now ..... ciao ciao!

[Ray Proudfoot 8,979]

Reggie,Many thanks for updating the FSX runways at Manchester. It will prove a very popular download.Can I add some local knowledge here please. 23L is never used for landing although the reciprocal end (05R) is. 05R is never used for departures. Each end needs closing appropriately.Is it possible in FSX to close one end of a runway without it having any adverse effects on the other end? This wasn't possible in FS9 but I'm hoping Microsoft have fixed this particular bug.Cheers,

[Guest AirPierre]

I was keeping away from that issue Ray until the current changes were working OK ;)23L never? Sometimes!!As for M$ fixing bugs - with ATC I reckon they have spawned even more IMHO?!

[Virtualwombat 4]

Well that's a shame! Sorry to hear about the erratic AI. Not that it will bother me too much as I can't afford much in the way of AI anyway with FSX...Cheers,Noel.

[Guest AirPierre]

When you 'afford' Noel you can't mean the spec' of your PC can you??As for AI - 95% of it is all "free" - all it will cost you is time!?When you have all the worlds airlines scudding about your airports you will wonder why you haven't got them there before ;)Cheers,

[Virtualwombat 4]

Yep, Peter, I mean FSX wrt frame rates. I'm pretty intent on keeping 30+ fps, since anything less detracts from the realism for me. It's one of the reasons I use photorealistic scenery (no autogen). I was interested to see Rob Young's comments in another thread today, where he said much the same thing. Having said that, I do find the static a/c in UK2000 Bristol airport look really terrific. But I guess you can't have everything.Cheers,Noel.

[Guest AirPierre]

LOL Noel!Not that I want to start the 'FPS debate' here again - but I get along just fine (no bumbpy rides!) with around 20 fps and that is with 5000+ AI aircraft loaded and 500+ traffic files?!Each to his own though ..... :) :)

[RFields5421 1]

1. Runway usage - Real world EGCC is beyond the capabilities of FS. Just like FS2004, it will require two files - one setup for landings from the north on the 23 pair with 23R for landing and 23L for takeoff. Also one for landings from the south on the 5 pair with 5R for landings and 5L for takeoffs. Just like FS2004 - that is why I did not close any runways for usage in this first round of beta test.2. Taxiways signs - the exclude for the taxiway signs is not working correctly - I was having to work on a slow laptop - it will be Saturday before I can look at it on a computer which can fly FSX. The 'shift' is caused by rounding errors. No one is exactly sure how many decimal places FSX uses for every measurement - but almost no decompiler uses the 13 decimal places we know FSX can accept.3. ILS Backcourse issue - I forgot to set the Rwy 5L/23R ILS to not enable backcourse. Because they are on the same frequency and unlike the real world always powered up - aircraft can capture the backcourse and not the ILS resulting in no descent profile.4. Both ends of the runway used - Peter, you may remember the complaints about locking out the runway and not being able to turn an airport when the winds change from the FS2004 AFCAD Beta. Microsoft heard us. In FSX the airport will change runway end usage when the winds change.Unfortunately, aircraft which have already been assigned to the old runway end will continue their approach or taxi and use that end of the runway resulting in head to head runway usage for a while.Since most people start FS with cached weather - either by using a saved flight, or not updating weather until they are in the flight - their runway usage will change from the 'default' direction to the current direction after aircraft have been assigned.Try loading the flight, downloading weather, go to the Map view and change the aircraft heading by one degree to force a reload of the AI and see if the double end behavior continues.5. Approaches - has anyone ask for different approaches and approaches with transitions yet?Next Steps - I'll fix the backcourse, create two files for runway usage in different directions and work on the parking a bit for an update Friday night US time.I'll look at the taxiway signs over the weekend.Parking - Some folks have been helping me work through some issues at FSDeveloper and these are some recommendations which seem to be working best:http://www.flightsim2004-fanatics.com/Flig...Parking_FAQ.pdfhttp://www.flightsim2004-fanatics.com/Flig...Matrix_Type.pdfUnderstand that many FS2004 AI aircraft are not setup correctly to use FSX parking - especially the AIA B747's.http://www.flightsim2004-fanatics.com/Flig...gSpanValues.htmPushback tugs, baggage loaders, baggage carts - all GATE spots will generate all three. CARGO spots will generate pushback tugs. You need 8.5M of clearance between the edge of the parking spot circle and the back of the tug. Be careful not to move spots too close to buildings or these vehicles will come out of the building.Overlapping parking spots - fuel trucks and other airport vehicles travel near the edge of a parking spot. If you are parked with a CRJ in a Cargo spot and call a fuel truck - you will not see it and not be refueled because the spot is too large for the wingspan of the aircraft.Conversely, if you park a B747 in a Medium or Small gate spot and call a fuel truck - you will crash your aircraft when the truck tries to drive through the aircraft.Overlapping parking spots have to be avoided in FSX if you do not want vehicles driving through aircraft.Fuel parking - the default value is 16.0M. We are recommending 12.0M for fuel spots at airports with mostly larger aircraft. Smaller on small airports. With more small aircraft than parking - they will overflow into fuel spots.Vehicle Parking - Vehicle parking spots are 5.0M and create fuel trucks. The fuel trucks must be linked to each GATE, CARGO and other parking spot which will require fuel by a new type of VEHICLE taxiway - with a node on the parking spot where you want the truck to turn from the VEHICLE taxi path to the Parking Connector path. If you to not use VEHICLE paths and have those links - the fuel trucks will use aircraft taxi paths.Jetways and parking spot names - Notice this code for a parking spot: Notice this partial code for a Jetway: [/b] If you change the parking spot name to GATE A 27 - you have to change the Jetway reference also.When a tool is released - we are going to see hundreds of posts complaining "My jetways quit working" because people will name gates 'realistically' and not change the corrensponding jetway code.One funny thing which will also happen - if I change a spot halfway across the airport to GATE 49 - that jetway will extend to the aircraft parked in that spot. You will see jetways taxi across the airport through aircraft and buildings.Parking codes - As before you can use multiple parking codes in parking spots in FSX, but like FS2004 - more than four codes really diminishes the value of the code.But you can also use multiple parking codes in aircraft.cfg files.One test we've done involved regional jets at an airport served by American Airlines.The gate spots which the CRJ and ERJ will use are coded AALJ,AALThe ramp spots are coded AALX for the turboprops and overflow jets.The jets aircraft.cfg is coded AALJ,AALX.When landing at other airports - the jet parks in an AALX spot.At this airport they use any open AALJ spots with jetways and then overflow to AALX spots on the ramp. Other AAL aircraft will leave the AALJ,AAL spots empty until all the AAL spots are full, then overflow to those spots if they are large enough.There are a lot of exciting possibilities - but it also increases the complexity and the chance of getting unexpected behaviors by 1000%.Be very cautious and sparse with parking codes - especially multiple codes.Peter, I'll look into the other issues. I'll probably need your modified xml file.

[Guest AirPierre]

PHEW!!!!!!!!

[Ray Proudfoot 8,979]

Hi Reggie (and Peter),Just to clarify one thing... When aircraft are landing from the south both 05L and 05R are available. In reality they tend to use one runway at a time to give the locals a bit of a breather.And whilst 23L has an ILS, in reality that runway is only ever used for landings when 23R is closed for maintenance.I appreciate enforcing these restrictions may not be possible but I just wanted to clarify things in case it became possible to.Cheers,

[RFields5421 1]

I understand that both runways may be used in both directions - but I'm talking about the limitations of FS and how far we can go toward real world process.FS works best at two runway airports with one runway for landing and one for takeoff. Moving the traffic to all land on 05R will keep aircraft waiting for takeoff clearance on 05L from timing out and disappearing.EGCC aircraft will always be assigned to the north runway for takeoff because it is so much closer to the parking.The south runway is a design which is one of the worst possible for AI in FS - with thousands of feet without a parallel taxiway. This makes 05R impractical for takeoffs and 23L terrible for landings.When landing on the 23 runways, we have to force the aircraft to takeoff on 23L, which works pretty good once we make one of the crossing points not connected to the north runway.This will make aircraft taxi across the runway without waiting on traffic on that runway. Not an optimal solution, but a pretty good one in the long run. There will be a few collision potentials - but much less than we had first feared when the concept was proposed.I've also got to look at hold short nodes - the 23L end of runway connection for takeoff aircraft looks like it may not work for AI with the hold short node in the real world position - but too far back for FS.

[Guest AirPierre]

>When landing on the 23 runways, we have to force the aircraft>to takeoff on 23L, which works pretty good once we make one of>the crossing points not connected to the north runway.>>This will make aircraft taxi across the runway without waiting>on traffic on that runway. Not an optimal solution, but a>pretty good one in the long run. There will be a few collision>potentials - but much less than we had first feared when the>concept was proposed.Don't worrry about that Reggie as there have been some 'real life' close shaves already!!!!btw, did you pick up on the "5" or "05" question in an earlier thread??

[Ray Proudfoot 8,979]

Hi Reggie,I appreciate the limitations and difficulties trying to emulate r/w procedures in FSX. I also appreciate all the work you're doing on my local airport.The prevailing wind at EGCC is from the west for about 80% of the time so 23R landings and 23L departures will be just fine. During the remaining 20% with easterly winds 05R for landings and 05L for departures will also be fine.Of course Sod's Law is currently in operation with 05L being used for departures and the blighters are flying right over my house on the LISTO and Honiley SIDs.Cheers,

[RFields5421 1]

out of interest I recompiled the beta_xml changing the "5" to "05". Whilst this seemed to sort the landing out (although they laneded short of 05L for some reason?) the taxing aircraft again stopped, all disappearing as they were given the last clearence to contact ground? Aircraft still disappeared on landing but not all (many gates of all types were free).Which "5" did you change ?

[jvile 1]

ReggieDoug at ACES got the Taxiway sign exclude working correctly in SP1Use 0.42/0.43 to open the default EGCC and then extract out the single exclude above the header which is a total boundary exclude for the signs. Copy the exclude and all signs back into the xml you already have and there will be no duplicates. The single exclude blocks all signs in the root bgl and unlocks the reference so the new xml can manipulate them. Ver 0.42 has minimual drift do to the 13th decimal point.Runway approach code FSX will accept either 0 up to 9 or 00 up to 09 for the runway. However like you said the approach data must coorespond or the AI will land short on 5L. This is because the AI reverted back to the dll VFR approach by default. The hard floor for 5L between the iAF and FAF no longer exsit. When the AI Plane gear extends on the turn to final it looses any reference to no hard floor and defaults to 2000AGL. The gear down on some AI Planes is designed very poorly (sink rate) and once the AI starts a sink rate it has nothing to source back to and ends up short or disappears after reaching the runway. You know all the reasons for that timing control.