A VOR pop quiz...try your luck

[altstiff 71]

10 or 11 and turn to the left.

[Jack C 8]

OK guys I will kinda explain how to do this really quick and hope some can pick up on this. I will make this a 2 step post since i gotta run to the gym. OK if you want ot find your position in relation to a VOR imagine it this way. He said he had 090 selected on the oBS. Now imagine your plane pointed 090 ( i know he said 270 but dont worry about that right now). So we all have our plane pointed 090 in our heads right?. OK now the needle is deflected to which side? To the left. SO we know the VOR is to the left of us. NOW the TO/FROM flag is pointed where? Well he said TO. SO we now just established 2 things. The VOR is to the LEFT and IN FRONT (since it is the TO flag) of us. WE are imagining we are facing 090. so if we are facing 090 and the VOR is to the LEFT and FRONT of us that would be anywhere from 12 - 3 oclock which is NE. Well if the vor is to the NE of us we are to the SW of the VOR. EASY? NOW you can do this with ANY one of these acenerios in the steps i just gave. Next post i will give a quick lesson on how to intercept and a certain radial and if it possible in a certain situation.Jack

[michal 44]

>had 090 selected on the oBS. Now imagine your plane pointed>090 ( i know he said 270 but dont worry about that right now).Jack,I agree this is the best method to tackle this problem.People ought to remember that what VOR shows you have nothing to do with which way the aircraft is pointing. This is so basic yet even my own CFII forgot about it once!!Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/for...argo_hauler.gifhttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

[Guest Stryker]

The station is anywhere from your 3:01 to your 5:59 o'clock :(A right turn to heading 360 is the surest way to intercept the radial.I like Jack's answer the best so far. I was going to say ignore the heading, because cardinal rules #1-#15 of VOR navigation are "the CDI does not care what heading you are on." If you had an HSI it would be different and also much easier to figure out.Anyway, I always tell my students to tune in the course, and imagine your plane is in the center of the nav display. Look at what direction the needle is. If it's on the left, any heading 90 degrees from the left of the heading tuned will eventually intercept it without turning you further away from the station (in this case 360-089). Of course if you pick too shallow of an intercept it increases the likelyhood that you will pass the station before intercepting the radial.In the example given, a right turn to 360 will pretty much guarantee intercepting the tuned course. Now, 90-degree intercepts are not the most desirable, especially in faster planes, because you could overshoot the course at a standard-rate turn if you are too close to the station or going to fast. It's also not as efficient.The rule of thumb is this:1. Turn to a heading to parallel the desired course, in the same direction as the course to be flown.2. Determine the difference between the radial to be intercepted and the radial on which you are located (find this by turning the OBS until the CDI centers).3. Double the difference to determine the interception angle (don't use an angle less than 20

[Guest Crimguy]

Jack's analysis is correct, except that he says that, when going on a 090 heading the VOR would be anywhere from a 12 - 3 o'clock (it would be between your 10 and 11 o'clock on that heading, or arguably between 9 and 12 o'clock. If it was at your 12 o'clock it would be centered, if it was at your 9 o'clock it would be showing "off"). Turning around it would be between your 4 and 5 o'clock, so you would look over your right shoulder at the VOR in question.I guess you might have to look between your legs if you've just passed over it.So - what are we missing ;-D

[Jack C 8]

True If it is actually at a perfect 12:00 position you would get the NAV or OFF flag (whatever it is). So to correct myself the VOR is at 12:01 to 14:59 to make it more correct. But it would not be at a 10 or 11 oclock like you said. If you were to point the aircraft on a heading of 090 the vor WOULD BE at 12:01 to 14:59

[Guest Stryker]

Actually, clock position has no bearing (no pun intended) on whether you'll get the flag, as (my) rules #1-15 state, your heading has nothing to do with the indication in the nav receiver.In the example, but instead on a heading of 090, you could theoretically be anywhere from the 181 radial to the 260 radial (assuming the needle is full-scale to the left and not partial scale - full deflection on a VOR is 10 degrees). That puts the station at your 9:01 to 11:45ish, not 12:01 to 2:59 (we do not go higher than 12:00 when talking about bearing, so 14:59 is the wrong terminology). That would put the needle to the right. Remember even though you reversed your heading, the needle will still be on the left side.In order to get the "off" or "nav" flag (depending on your receiver), you'd have to be due north or due south of the station. This is known as the "area of ambiguity" where the receiver can't tell if the course dialed in is closer to "to" or "from". This happens whenever you are on a radial that is 90 degrees from the course tuned in.

[Jack C 8]

Actually what i am saying is if you were heading 090 and the station is at a perfecct 12 oclock position yes you would get the OFF flag. Please just trust me on this. To answer the original question you are at a bearing of 181 to 269 from the station. Since the example stated we WERE heading 270 that means to LOOK at the VOR you would have to turn your head to a 091 to 179 bearing (turn your head just past 3 oclock to almost 6 oclock). MY explanation of HEADING 090 was just a quick way to show the guys where the station is from your position.Jack CATPLDHC8 and soon to be B737-6-7-86000 TT

[Guest CowlFlapsOpen]

hmmm...more takers?

[XWRed5 0]

Agreed... over your right shoulder (3:30/4/5/6 ish) and right turn to establish.Good quiz, like it.Iam

[Guest DreamFleet]

Sounds like you read the latest AOPA ePilot training e-mail that came in today. ;-)Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

[Guest CowlFlapsOpen]

yep, Lou, was saving that... :-) Perfect timing bc I had confused something similar last night while flying...but when I got to this example I really had to pause. Didn't make sense until I gave it a lot of thought.

[Smokin256 0]

guyjr wrote;

"Bzzzt, try again. The VOR receiver has no idea what your heading is."

He he, you're right of course. Do you ever have that little voice inside that's doing its darndest to keep you from doing something stupid? But you're like "shut up little voice! I know what I'm doing"! Well I really need to listen to it sometimes. Thanks for the heads up.Cheers...........Smokin256

[Manny 1,293]

"The station is anywhere from your 3:01 to your 5:59 o'clock"Thats the right answer I believe.1. You have total reverse sensing at this stage. OBS at 90 and your heading at 270. So a left deflecting needle means.. your 90 degree track is to the right.2. It can't be 3:00 Clocl cause of the zone of ambuiguity. so you would neither get To or a From If you have to look at at 3:00 O'Clock that would mean the VOR is to the right right,.So 3:01 to your 5:59 O'Clock. (Depending on how far away you are from the track is right.MannyHere is a good trainer.http://roye.home.netcom.com/flighttraining/VOR.htm:)

[Guest Stryker]

>Actually what i am saying is if you were heading 090 and the>station is at a perfecct 12 oclock position yes you would get>the OFF flag. Not if the OBS were still tuned to 090. The CDI would be centered in that case. If you were on heading 090 and had 090 tuned in and the station is at your 12:00 (assuming no wind), the CDI would be centered and the flag would say "to." In this scenario the only way for you to get the "off" flag would be to tune the OBS to 360 or 180. (or if you were directly over the station)>To answer the original question you are at a bearing of 181 to 269 from the station.This is 100% correct. Except that if the needle were deflected full-scale you're actually 181 to 260 from the station (any closer to 260 and the needle starts moving towards the center). However the example doesn't say how far to the left the needle is deflected.>Since the example stated we WERE heading 270 that>means to LOOK at the VOR you would have to turn your head to a>091 to 179 bearing You must mean 091 (3:01) to 179 (5:59) relative to the nose of the aircraft, not relative to north. Relative to north the station is 361 to 080 from the aircraft. (assuming full-scale deflection of the CDI)Ok, time to break out the dry-erase markers:http://home.comcast.net/~jmlouden/vor.JPGI think we're both right, just not on the same page.Given the original example, we are somewhere in the green area, heading 270. Correct?If we leave the OBS tuned to 090, the only way to get the "off" flag is to be directly over the station or be in the red "area of ambiguity", or to retune the OBS to 90 degrees from whatever radial we are actually on.In order for the station to be at 12:00 relative to the nose of the aircraft, heading 090, OBS tuned to 090, then the CDI must be centered, not indicating "off". The aircraft must be in the position marked "jack's example" (exact distance from the station unknown).Are we all in accordance with this? Jack's either wrong about the "off" flag or I'm misunderstanding the set of circumstances that he is assuming.