AAU G5000 Bummer

[Bdub22 1,622]

As the title suggest, there is a bummer I discovered with the new and awesome avionics G5000 update. As the current iteration exists, us users are able to create user waypoints, but the current issue is that it won't save them for later use. For example: I wanted to fly into KASE (Aspen) today but the minimums were lower than the LOC-DME approach allowed. I did some research and learned that there is actually a published RNP (AR) approach into KASE that allows you to go down to about ~300 feet. This got me all excited and I fired up the sim to program the box with respective waypoints only to learn that the approach isn't even supported by Navigraph data. No big deal, I thought. The waypoints in the approach are on Skyvector and I just made a custom flight-plan with the lat/long coordinates with their corresponding altitude constraints. It worked perfectly. Weather was MVFR and I busted out of the base layer right on course. The bummer I mentioned earlier is the fact that all the time I took to create user waypoints were temporary. In fact, the box that you can press or uh, un press - isn't active. 

I hope that one day we can enter user-created waypoints and they save like we were able to do in......FSX. 

This also brings me to another point, Navigraph should have these waypoint/intersections in their database. I know they are part of an RNP (AR) set, but the whole point of simulating flight is to do things we can't do in real life. These charts should be including with a subscription and they should also be represented in the sim as well. 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Bdub22

[ryanbatc 13,035]

That approach is a private one irl so it wouldn't be in the public database

As for the user waypoints - it's not a concern for me but maybe it'll come someday as the avionics are early access

I believe you're referring to this one:

https://aerospace.honeywell.com/us/en/about-us/blogs/honeywell-receives-faa-approval-aspen-rnav-approach

[B777ER 2,492]

If this is the biggest issue with the G5000, I think we will be okay.

[RoomyKestrel235 6]

I have programmed and compiled the LOC 15, LOC-E, and the Honeywell RNAV (RNP) N 15 you write about for KASE. I have all the IAFs, RF legs, missed approach, altitude and speed constraints, and transitions in there as well. The RNP is a really cool approach as it brings you winding through the mountains including on the missed approach. All the waypoints are in MSFS so you don't need custom waypoints. You would just be missing the proper leg types.

My plan is to upload them to flightsim.to after the WT avionics become default in January. I'm eager to share. It works really well right now on the G1000 but I wanted to wait until the other avionics are up to speed. I'm not part of the beta so I cannot test. If you want I can send zip file and you can just put this into your community folder.

Edited December 16, 2022 by RoomyKestrel235

[Bdub22 1,622]

2 hours ago, B777ER said:

If this is the biggest issue with the G5000, I think we will be okay.

I never once said this was the biggest issue with the G5000. If you read back, I called the update "awesome".

[Bdub22 1,622]

1 hour ago, RoomyKestrel235 said:

All the waypoints are in MSFS so you don't need custom waypoints

No, they're not. 

[MattNischan 3,866]

This KASE approach is not included in the Navigraph data because it is a restricted procedure. You have to take a course and get a special authorization to use that procedure, and they don't give out the data that procedure for that reason.

As far as saving custom waypoints goes, we can save some basic settings data but JS avionics cannot presently save complex data or write to the filesystem.

[RoomyKestrel235 6]

Yes they are. You may be using the old LOC 15 approach. Almost all the information one can find about aspen approaches have the old chart with old waypoints. That has been updated (not sure how long ago) and the new chart is very difficult to find. The waypoints from the new LOC 15 approach and RNAV RNP approach are in MSFS. You can enter these in but I believe they will all be treated as TF legs. You'll miss out on the DME arc stuff and the RF leg stuff.

[Bdub22 1,622]

5 minutes ago, RoomyKestrel235 said:

Yes they are. You may be using the old LOC 15 approach

I'm sorry to beat a dead horse, but -- no, they're not. I'm not sure if we're speaking about the same approach, but I'm talking abou the RNAV (RNP) N 15. Waypoints OFFRD, TRUCS, LHAND, etc are not in the MSFS database. Or at least, not for me. I had to search for a while to even find the IAP approach plate, as its not on Skyvector or Navigraph. 

 

59 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

This KASE approach is not included in the Navigraph data because it is a restricted procedure. You have to take a course and get a special authorization to use that procedure, and they don't give out the data that procedure for that reason.

I totally understand. But, I'm curious as to why us armchair pilots can't simulate this approach. We have the lat/long coordinates, as well as the altitude constraints. I got them from Skyvector. I know in real life, pilots need authorization, but-- everything us sim pilots do is make-believe anyways. Would be great if we could get access to some of these AR approaches.

 

 

[Cpt_Piett 4,818]

I’m sure I was flying an RNAV approach into KASE this week in the Fenix, and that it wasn’t the RNAV-F in Navigraph (that one isn’t a straight-in approach).

[Jeff Nielsen 1,402]

18 hours ago, MattNischan said:

This KASE approach is not included in the Navigraph data because it is a restricted procedure. You have to take a course and get a special authorization to use that procedure, and they don't give out the data that procedure for that reason.

As far as saving custom waypoints goes, we can save some basic settings data but JS avionics cannot presently save complex data or write to the filesystem.

Actually, isn't that approach still in development by Honeywell?  I think they are doing like 3 or 4 others while the FAA is doing the rest?  I thought initially, it will be available to only Honeywell customers?  AR approaches can be flown by any operator provided they train for it, etc..   In any case, it probably wouldn't be in the nav data base yet, but if it uses some of the existing fixes, then those would be in there.
 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Jeff Nielsen

[MattNischan 3,866]

4 hours ago, Bdub22 said:

I know in real life, pilots need authorization, but-- everything us sim pilots do is make-believe anyways.

 

2 hours ago, Jeff Nielsen said:

AR approaches can be flown by any operator provided they train for it, etc..

My apologies, I was thinking of the KASE Special LOC, which requires a special per-pilot FAA training certificate separate from any other AR equipment certifications. This one they don't give out to the public. Including it in the data or chart selection (regardless if it's for flight simulation only) would induce a liability and is likely against regulations.

The RNP AR approaches you are referring to are not part of the FAA dataset yet, and thus will not appear in any Jeppesen or FAA derived data. As Jeff mentions they're still in development.

Edited December 16, 2022 by MattNischan